Total Recall!

[Ram4Sam]

Bill, can you see the irony of it all?

"Check out Arnold's plan to pull Calif out of the toilet, we're all going to have to pay.

He wants the feds to bail them out"



Bill, you made my day! Your lib/dems totally screwed up this state, screwed the pooch and ran up a huge deficit. Now, a republican govenor wants the republican president to use federal money(paid by you) to clean up the mess that your heros have made. Instead of raising my taxes to fix the mess, YOU may get to pay it for me!!Oo. Oo. It doesn't get any better than that.



Thanks again Bill!



Sam

 

[illflem]

Sam, please explain how the libs/dems created a deficit in every single state that had to be dealt with. This includes Rep controlled Montana that just finished balancing it's budget by cutting education and raising property taxes, no asking for a federal handout.

I'm waiting...

 

[loncray]

Virginia's gotten rid of deficits the past few years by the same sort of accounting tricks CA has used, one-time revenues, that sort of thing. We've got a GOP controlled legislature and a Democratic governor who replaced a GOP one - the problems all started during the Republican administration but the current governor hasn't been able to get any real fixes thru the legislature. Too many legislators are against any kind of new taxes, suspicious of changes to the antiquated tax code, and unable to cut services 'cause constituents will scream bloody murder. It'll be interesting to see what finally gives!

 

[klenger]

We just moved to Arizona a year ago, but I am impressed with how they are trying to control their budget. They have taken steps to reduce spending by cutting state jobs, road projects, etc. to keep spending down till the economy turns around. Kind of the same way we would (or at least should) handle our personal finances.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Huh?

Originally posted by illflem

Sam, please explain how the libs/dems created a deficit in every single state that had to be dealt with. This includes Rep controlled Montana that just finished balancing it's budget by cutting education and raising property taxes, no asking for a federal handout.

I'm waiting...

Bill, I never said anything about the other states, I was just referring to the situation in California. You brought up the point of non-Californians having to foot the bill for the mess that the libs created. If it bothers you to pay the bill for this mess, maybe you should email Davis(while you can) and thank him. Like I said, it doesn't get any better than a lib/dem getting it in the shorts from one of their own.



Sam

 

[loncray]

How is the national economy going in the dumper or Enron robbing people blind the fault of the Democrats?!? CA made some of it's own bed with the Proposition system, but the Republicans are in charge of national economic policies, have been since right before CA's economy went south.

And I'll be happy to watch the conservatives catch it in the shorts on social issues that Gov. Schwarzenneger's a liberal on. Though I do think his fiscal conservativism is needed in CA right now, I don't think he's really got the slightest idea how to fix CA.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Let's try this again....

"Check out Arnold's plan to pull Calif out of the toilet, we're all going to have to pay.

He wants the feds to bail them out. http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/200...009topnews.html"



Bill/Lonny, you guys need to get back on track! Who said anything about the national economy or all the other states? Wasn't me. My response was to Bill's bellyaching about his tax dollars going to a bailout of California. Your clowns(Davis, Boxer, and Feinstein, etc. ) created this mess and now you might get to help pay for it. You can't even blame the republicans/conservatives for it, which I'm sure just bugs the crap out of you.



Who knows if Arnold is smart enough to fix this. I hope he is smart enough to find the right people who are smart and brave enough to make some real tough decisions that need to be made.

The dems have had the keys to the state for years and drove it into the ground, leaving a broken, smoldering wreck. If Arnold can clean up mess, great. The libs have shown they can't/won't.



Sam

 

[loncray]

Other than working on the national economy, precisely what do Senators Feinstein and Boxer have to do with the CA economy? They are US Senators working in a GOP controlled US Senate that does very little to California's economy other than crashing and burning after the GOP took the Presidency. Grey Davis controlled only, what, 20% of the CA budget? I already said the proposition system has put CA in trouble - but it was going just fine until the US economy crashed, which only happened when the GOP was in charge. Sure, it might've been on the way down at the end of the Clinton Administration, but the good times were bound to end sooner or later - they lasted longer under Clinton than ever before.

What have the liberals done to ruin CA's economy, Sam? Which policy or policies did it in? Which liberals were running the US economy when it crashed starting in 2000, taking CA's economy with it? What liberals were at Enron, stealing millions of dollars? I'm sure it bugs the crap out of you that President Bush might follow his father into the Hall of One-Term Presidents if he can't get the economy going again and people back to work! THEN we can get back on track!

 

[illflem]

Re: Huh?

Originally posted by Ram4Sam

If it bothers you to pay the bill for this mess, maybe you should email Davis(while you can) and thank him.

I've taken a better step Sam and emailed my representatives asking they don't support any bills to bail out Calif.

Suggest others do the same in their own states





"There are a couple of cows waiting for me. You know, when I first got back from Washington, it seemed like the cows were talking back. But now that I've spent some time in Crawford, I've realized cows can't talk. "

-- George W. Bush, Revealing disturbing facts about his brain chemistry. Town Hall Forum on Economy, Ontario, California, Jan. 5, 2002

 

[Ram4Sam]

Lets' try this again...take 2

(thump,thump,thump) Sound of me bangin' my head on the wall for ever getting in these threads!



Lonny, sorry you can't stay on the subject of this thread. Your heros have drove the economy in the toilet with all the taxes and ridiculous social programs. Welfare for anyone who wants it, health care for illegals, punitive taxes on business, a runaway workers comp system, overbearing/unrealistic enviormental rules, the list is endless. Courtesy of the liberals who are strangling the state. I live it and see it everyday, I don't read about it on the internet and in newspapers, like you do.



Sam

 

[loncray]

((Bangs head on other side of wall trying to convince a conservative that he's wrong))



Let's try this slowly. The economy in CA was fine, up until a few years ago. There are probably way too many social programs in CA, and most probably owe their existence to liberals in the CA legislature and executive branch, but they were fine until the economy crashed. The CA economy followed the US economy. Now, the economy crashed partly because it's cyclical, and couldn't sustain itself. You can't blame the liberals for that any more than I can blame the conservatives. Just the way of things. Same goes for the effects of 9/11 on certain sectors.

I believe part of the national economic crash is due to the policies of the Bush Administration. I could be wrong on this - my degree isn't in economics - but I think the tax cut was ill-timed at best when the govt. was increasing massively. Can't blame the liberals for this when the executive branch and legislature are all GOP-run. Certainly doesn't look good for the conservatives.

Meantime, the CA economy (and to a lesser extent the US economy) were affected by Enron. Those yoyo's stole millions of dollars out of the economy, lost thousands of people their jobs, and wrecked the energy trading business they'd set up, not to mention being behind the blackouts in CA. I don't think anybody thinks Ken Lay and his people are liberals.

So, the crashes in the US and CA economies leave CA with too many programs and not enough money to fund them. Can you get rid of those programs? Betcha they've all got their own constituencies (and not all are liberals), and I'll betcha they each will howl bloody murder if Governor Schwarzenegger threatens any one of them. Betcha he can't touch most of them because the proposition system ties his hands. And that system isn't JUST liberal social programs - there's a lot of tying of government's hands in the tax arena too - the liberals aren't the only ones who get propositions passed.

I don't care if you live there, you knee-jerk blame the liberal side of the aisle for the mess when there's plenty of blame to go around on BOTH sides.

 

[illflem]

The GOP control in Montana blame our deficit on loss of capitol gains tax revenue due to the stock market slump. I agree and place no blame on anyone even though you may brand me an unpatriotic bush bashing pinko liberal.

The bailout plan I liked the most was to charge sales tax only to out of staters, there is currently no sales tax in Montana.

State legislature wimped out on that idea but did impose a tourist tax in the areas in proximity to the National Parks on tourist related items.



Oregon which also has no sales tax was thinking of dealing with their deficit by charging sales tax only in the Interstate 5 corridor, for the out of state buck. Don't know what became of it though.

You see there are other ways of dealing with it besides a federal handout.

If Calif was to get bailed in this way why shouldn't the other 50 states?

 

[Sled Puller]

That always makes sense-penalize the tourist who has chosen to spend his money in your state. Get all you can, becuase they won't be back.



Hey LIBBS!!



YOU CANT KEEP TAXING ME OR THEM OR IT OVER AND OVER, BECAUSE EVENTUALLY, THE MONEY RUNS OUT.

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by Sled Puller

That always makes sense-penalize the tourist who has chosen to spend his money in your state. Get all you can, becuase they won't be back.

Gene, they'll be back, most won't even notice they are paying sales tax as they are so used to paying them anyway. Most folks don't even know that some states don't have sales tax. There are five, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon.

Sort of doubt anyone on their way to Washington from Calif is going to drive around Oregon just so they don't have to pay a visitor sales tax. Besides they would drive though a state that has sales tax to avoid it.

Guess they could drive all the way though without buying anything if they're that tight.



When you think of it it's only fair. Visitors to states without sales tax use some of that state's services that the state's residents paid for with other taxes.

In other words visitors are getting those services for free.

 

[Champane Flight]

Montanas fuel tax?

Back in my driving days, when going into Montana, we had to pay 24 dollars and HAD to show prove (fuel reciept) of purchase of fuel when coming out. I had 300 gallon tanks, didn't really need fuel, but had to buy it. So I would buy five dollars worth of fuel. Used to tick off the port guys!