Towing in the Mountains

[DPelletier]

Casey,

I took a look at the prices of those Newmar 5er's like yours and you're right! You do "have a ton of money invested" !



Hopefully I'll be able to afford one like it when I can start to take long enough holidays to make the purchase worthwhile.



I musta saw the info in the towing Guide, just couldn't remember!



Dave

 

[jimnance]

Re: J.D. Moore

Actaully, most pilots are not obsessed with safety. At least most G. A. pilots. Not to say we don't approach getting into an aircraft differently than a car. Just like SCUBA, in an aircraft you are out of your natural element. Things like running out of fuel become much more serious in an aircraft.



I'd like to think that most pilots are risk managers. We evaluate each flight with respect to the overall safety. Equipment, weather, the pilots condition, and make an informed assessment of how safe it is to fly under those conditions.



Don't let anyone kid you. Flying a small aircraft is generally NOT safer than driving a car. The pilot's approach to flying and competency can tilt the balance somewhat, but the accident reports suggest that quite a few pilots make poor decisions and end up on the side of a mountain.



On a positive side, we generally don't have to worry about drunk drivers at 10,000 feet.



Physician pilots on the other hand do tend to be a little anal retentive. If they aren't they generally end up a statistic.

 

[jfrow2]

Originally posted by Casey Balvert

The 2004 Towing Guide states, "Use an exhaust brake for all 3500 manual transmission applications with a trailer weight over 10,000 pounds".



The 2003 Towing Guide dated November 16, 2002, states "An exhaust brake or "Jake Brake" is required for Dodge 3500 Pickup and Chassis Cab models pulling a trailer of 10,000 pounds or more".



Doesn't even sound like DC sees is as a recommendation, more like a requirement.



Between the truck and trailer I have a ton of money invested along with the safety of my family, an exhaust brake is a bargain.



FWIW



Casey

Please bear with a newbie.



Understand an exhaust break is required for a MANUAL transmission with trailer weights over 10,000 pounds.



Question---What about automatic transmissions? Noticed the towing guide lists about the same "Maximum Trailer Wt. " for both automatic and manual transmissions (both much in excess of 10,000 pounds). How is this possible when the factory does not offer an e-brake option for AT's??

 

[J D Moore]

jimnance

Couldn't agree more. I am reminded of my mentor, WWII Navy flight instructor with more than 3500 hours of flight time no longer flew. I asked why, he said he couldn't maintain his level of competency while still working. He would therefore fly commerical, of course this was 30+ years ago

 

[Casey Balvert]

Originally posted by jfrow2

Please bear with a newbie.



Understand an exhaust break is required for a MANUAL transmission with trailer weights over 10,000 pounds.



Question---What about automatic transmissions? Noticed the towing guide lists about the same "Maximum Trailer Wt. " for both automatic and manual transmissions (both much in excess of 10,000 pounds). How is this possible when the factory does not offer an e-brake option for AT's??

An exhaust brake is hard on an automatic transmission. It becomes a matter of durability for the transmission. Dodge is working on an exhaust brake for the 04s with autos.



Casey

 

[jfrow2]

Originally posted by Casey Balvert

An exhaust brake is hard on an automatic transmission. It becomes a matter of durability for the transmission. Dodge is working on an exhaust brake for the 04s with autos.



Casey

Understand that. So how does the AT have a tow rating greatly in excess of 10,000 pounds without an e-brake while a truck with a manual transmission requires an e-brake for the same tow rating?



Does the AT somehow have more engine braking than a rig with a manual transmission???

 

[Casey Balvert]

I asked DC the same question some time back. Never did get an answer and it never made sense to me. I doubt they would limit tow ratings for auto equipped trucks because that would be marketing suicide.



Casey

 

[Dean Upson]

I suspect that if D/C had an e-brake for an automatic that worked they would require it in that application as well and it might be factory installed with the towing package.



Dean

 

[BSkinner]

Although I just tow a small ATV trailer I put a Jacob's e-brake on my CTD. I bought the truck with the idea that I might get a travel trailer at some point. I used the Jacob's all the time, in town and in the mountains. Of course, it works very well coming down from the Bighorn mountains. I figure every time I use it that I'm saving my brakes. Also, when I get a trailer, I won't have to worry about overheating the brakes which not only saves the brakes but might keep the rotors from warping. I think anyone driving an expensive truck towing an expensive trailer would be happy to spend $1,000 for the piece of mind an e-brake gives you. How would anyone feel if they wrecked their rig or, worse yet, injured their loved ones or other innocent people trying to save $1,000.



I live on Hwy 16 just best of Buffalo, WY. In the summer, I have smelled an awful lot of burning brakes. A couple of years ago, we followed a logging truck down the mountain. His brakes were smoking like you wouldn't believe. The guy just kept driving and didn't pull over for quite awhile. I guess he never looked in the rear view mirror. When he did finally pull over, the left rear of his trailer was on fire.



Bob

 

[JJW_ND]

JMHO....

We have had a chance to run Ebrake trucks and non Ebrake trucks pulling the same exact load (13K flatbed trailer) down the same trials. The pass Bob talks about is one we have ran several times It is steep on both sides.



These are totally stock company trucks all 3/4T 4x4s same rear gears, all manuals all dodge Diesels. We run these trucks hard (dont we all). The first ones where getting 18 - 22K out of a set of front brake pads. Since adding the Ebrakes we have been getting 60 - 75K before any brake. You can run in the MTs with out Ebrakes, you just fill your pants once or twice no matter how careful you are at our weight. You can push the Ebrake trucks as hard down the pass as up.



We have come done the pass into Buffalo WY from the west grossing 20K and NEVER touch our service breaks.



I never mentioned tire wear. Without Ebrake... . ABout 25K. WIth Ebrake 18 -20K to get all four tires below 4/32. THis is running Goodyear ATS (our tire bid).



jjw

ND

 

[jfrow2]

Originally posted by Dean Upson

I suspect that if D/C had an e-brake for an automatic that worked they would require it in that application as well and it might be factory installed with the towing package.



Dean

Dean and Casey--thanks for the replies, your posts confirm my suspicions.



I sure do hope that DC will wake up and offer e-brakes as a standard option on all heavy duty trucks.

 

[JGoodwin]

EXHAUST BRAKE FOR SURE. I LIVE IN THE ROCKIES AND CONSTANTLY TOW HERE. AND YES THESE CLUTHCHES ARE DESIGNED FOR EXHAUST BRAKES

 

[cumminsred]

I vote for the EXHAUST BRAKE wouldn't pull a trailer without one makes driving a lot easier and a big plus during the winter is to warm up your BIG OLE CUMMINS. If you ever use an exhaust brake for a period of time you will want one.



Lenard

 

[Peter Campbell]

I got one put on at the dealer $$$ when I ordered the truck. The parts were waiting to go on before the truck was shipped. Did not regret it, I am very glad to have it. No ESPAR on this one (yet ) so the only warm up method is the brake. Mostly I just run for one minute and go- and be cold for the first 10 miles. Even when not towing ( most of the time) using it is fun. If your going to row- you may as well have fun doing it.

 

[y-knot]

The E-brake and the TC lock-up are both things that you can not really appreciate until you drive with them. I waited for several years till I got one, and most of that was because I couldn't see how the E-brake would benefit me with-out TC controller. As soon as I decided to go with a new TC and a controller to operate it, I decided to install a Exhaust Brake. It was a long time coming, but I must say I really do enjoy it. Together with the ATS trany and TC, it works flawlessly. I can not believe how much it helps in slowing the truck, I love it! Now I always leave the OD off while I'm in town, It E-Brake works great like that, and I love to hear it. This would now have to be a "Must Have" Item.

 

[Fred Swanson]

I'll have to vote for the Exhaust Brake. For what they cost, it can make your trip fun, but if you decided to not get one, it could make your trip a nightmare.



Been on both sides of the equation towing in the mountains, both auto and manual with and without e-brakes. Trailer weights varying from 12K to 21K.



All it takes is that first trip with one, you'll never be without one from then on.



I use mine everywhere, whether towing or not. I rank it up there as one of the best modifications you can have on your truck.

 

[Coalsmoke]

yup, definitely a MUST HAVE!

 

[Eric_77]

Wyoming Jim



"Don't ride the brakes. Start down the hill already slowed down and already in a lower gear, with your foot OFF the brake. When your speed gets up 10 MPH or so, slow right down like your are approaching a stop sign, then take your foot off the brake until you have to slow down again. "





I agree with also but need to add two things one the brake should be applied for no more than 10 secs ( I use 5 secs as a base) and the time back to speed should be no more than 10 secs. If you have to apply for longer or it speeds up quicker slow down select a lower gear.



The normal recommendation is now one gear lower than what it took to climb hill. The new trucks have way more power than what old ones did with the same amount of engine braking (actually I think it may be less with internal friction losses reduced)



Take it easy and make it fun; no trip is worth getting there 20 minutes sooner!



Before the trip get your brakes checked.



There are some very good brake fluids out there that can really help.



Easily available Valvoline DOT synthetic. Others that are real good are the Motul(I think 600) and Ferodo fluid. The Motul and Ferodo will require more often changing as they absorb water fairly quickly (about every 6 months as opposed to once a year on others) but real high boiling point. Boiling point = brake fade/failure. Other option is to get some of the DOT 5. 1 it has relativily "normal" boiling point but the number one aspect is it does not absorb water like regular fluid that degrads its boiling point but the "dry" boiling point does not seem to be as high.





Word of caution do NOT use DOT 5 it is incompatible with DOT 3/4 systems. The Dodge manual says to use DOT 3 but DOT 4 can be used if 3 is unavailalble unsure why DOT 4 has all around better boiling points???

 

[GFrance]

I have an exhaust brake in my big cummins 460 towing 105,500 lbs of truck/trailer & 11,600 gals of gas up & down the mountains of Oregon. With that said I would'nt be without one in my little 350hp cummins towing 12,000 lb 5vr.

 

[Diesel Gal]

Ok, guys,



What's a TC lock up??



Thanks!