Towing Legislation

[Pavemen]

And don't forget the fees/tax.

that test was only $20 and its a one time thing at least. not that I wanted to pay it, but at least its not an annual fee

 

[Pavemen]

You must have a special lic in California to haul RV's as doubles, I have never seen someone pull triples.

as far as I know, triples are not allowed in CA, even in a TT config with a bullpup.

 

[GAmes]

You can pull RV doubles in CA but it requires a class A CDL with doubles endorsement. Here in TX I can pull a boat behind my 5er with a class C as long as the GCWR does not exceed 26,000. If it does exceed 26,000 we have a non-commercial class A to cover it that has totally different requirements than the non-commercial class A that CA has. Definitely a hodge-podge and a good example of government idiocy.

 

[10-9jc]

You can beat the issue to death one way or another -
but it's all just talk on a monitor.

States -or the feds- will do whatever is "on the table" with money behind it.
(and result in a profit).

Moot issue.

~

 

[surfbeetle]

I used to drive school buses here in CA with a commerical Class b. When I decided that I wanted to tow something behind my fifth wheel, I found you need a Commercial class A with doubles and triples endorsement (as was previously stated in the thread).



To upgrade my B to an A, I needed to take a skills test and the written test. I did not have access to a semi truck and don't want to drive a semi either. I found that you can get a restriction 88 with a CDL A and doubles and triples endorsement. I was able to take the written tests, I had to take all of them over, A,B,C, Passenger, Air brakes, etc cause my license was due to expire that year anyway. Then I drove my truck and fifth wheel down to the test office and did my skills test.



Since I already had the class B at the time, the tester only required me to do the outside "trailer" portion of the pre-trip, no inside or engine inspection. Then I did the parking and backing skills tests and went out on the driving test with him.



In CA, they only allow double trailers, not triples even though the endorsement says triples on it and when testing, they don't test you on doubles.



I had to tell them that my weight was over 10,001 lbs when towing the doubles and the restriction 88 says that I can't tow over 26,000 lbs which fits my situation perfectly. My fifth wheel is 11,000 loaded and the utility trailer I tow is only a couple thousand pounds.



Now as for requirements for RVr's, I am torn, there are some people that just flat out don't know what they are doing and I don't think that legislation will give them any skills but it may protect them from getting out there and killing themselves or worse an innocent person.



I think my license is now close to $100. 00 to renew, I have have a commerical license since I was 18, so I have always paid more for my license than most.

 

[MMeier]

I had to tell them that my weight was over 10,001 lbs when towing the doubles and the restriction 88 says that I can't tow over 26,000 lbs which fits my situation perfectly. My fifth wheel is 11,000 loaded and the utility trailer I tow is only a couple thousand pounds.

You say your 5th "weighs" 11k #. Now, do they go by actual weight or the GVWR on the units involved? If tri axle, the 5th probably is rated at 15600 or 18000. just wondering. Double axle utility should be 7k.

 

[Pavemen]

You say your 5th "weighs" 11k #. Now, do they go by actual weight or the GVWR on the units involved? If tri axle, the 5th probably is rated at 15600 or 18000. just wondering. Double axle utility should be 7k.

they go by what is in the computer that the MFG provided or they will read the sticker and go with that.

 

[bheiting]

After reading "How to Select, Inspect, and Buy an RV" by RV industry consultant
JD Galant, there is no doubt in my mind there needs to be some kind of legislation
to train drivers. He talks about retirees going out and buying their huge motor homes
or 5ers and not having a clue on how to handle them. Some commission driven sales
person sold them the biggest rig they could afford. Usually their incompetence scares
them enough so the rigs are up for sale within a year. Until these rigs are in the
hands of responsible drivers, all of our lives are threatened. And for all the gov't
phobes on here, I'll take sensible socialism over greedy irresponsible capitalism any day.

 

[HBarlow]

After reading "How to Select, Inspect, and Buy an RV" by RV industry consultant
JD Galant, there is no doubt in my mind there needs to be some kind of legislation
to train drivers. He talks about retirees going out and buying their huge motor homes
or 5ers and not having a clue on how to handle them. Some commission driven sales
person sold them the biggest rig they could afford. Usually their incompetence scares
them enough so the rigs are up for sale within a year. Until these rigs are in the
hands of responsible drivers, all of our lives are threatened. And for all the gov't
phobes on here, I'll take sensible socialism over greedy irresponsible capitalism any day.

Yes, I can see why you would feel that the lifestyle choices and behavior of others should be regulated by government.

Envy and resentment, even hatred, of those who can afford expensive possessions is almost always the underlying motivation of those who favor socialism. Lack of education and understanding are also common in many who seek government regulation of everything.

Personally, I prefer freedom . . . for myself and also for those successful, comfortable retirees who are motivated to go out and buy huge, expensive motorhomes or fifth wheel trailers. I bought one myself and enjoy it immensely. I have a Class A CDL, by the way, and have been towing travel trailers since 1972.

I have confidence in America and Americans. Thanks to the wonders of the US Constitution, we Americans with all our faults and limitations have created the most prosperous and most powerful nation the world has ever seen. We have demonstrated the ability to do amazing things over our short 200+ year history from sending men to the moon to operating large motorhomes and fifth wheel travel trailers on the highways of America.

My wish is that we could set aside a colony somewhere with tall walls around it and allow our liberals, socialists, and parasites to live inside it. I would gladly donate my tax dollars to support them so that they could spend all of their time regulating the behavior and lives of each other and thereby leave the rest of us who love life and freedom alone.

 

[KFranco]

Well said

Harvey, I agree completely with how you feel about this issue. However, to ingnore the fact that the RV industry has a problem here would be ingnorance in my opinion. Perhaps the "people" have the responsibility to say something to an obvious driving offender. I don't have the answer. I believe there are some good ideas posted here... including the one you mentioned about having walls for the socialists. I'll leave you with this scenario. Suppose you are driving in the passing lane while going by the guy who we mentioned earlier who lost control of his rig for irresponsible driving. Now supposed he lost control while you were passing and now you are caught in the mix. What an unfortunate situation for a competant driver to have to go through. There must be someway to prevent someone like that from getting behind the wheel.



Best wishes and it is my goal that the silent readers are learning something here.

 

[surfbeetle]

You say your 5th "weighs" 11k #. Now, do they go by actual weight or the GVWR on the units involved? If tri axle, the 5th probably is rated at 15600 or 18000. just wondering. Double axle utility should be 7k.

MMeier,

Mine has a GVWR of 11k, the utility trailer is a small open single axle 5x8 that weighs very little. If I remember correctly, my 5ver is in the 9,000 range when empty.

 

[AABEN]

I didn't want to steal a previous thread in which an unfortunate accident occured while towing a TT. Thankfully everyone is alright but this does bring up a sensitive subject. You could go on and on about what went wrong but what I'd like to know is how you guys feel about legislating, that is putting into law, a mandatory trailering class in which a written test must be passed at the local DMV. This would basically be an endorsement to your license allowing non CDL licensed drivers to trailer. I cannot overstate how important it is to know the language and understand trailering to provide a safe trailering experience for you and those you share the road with. Let me know how you guys feel about this. I'm interested in your responses.

I thank there is all the laws that we need NOW. With every new law passed ONE less right that we the people have!!!! We do not need the goverment on this! Every thing they get in to is a big mess when they are done!!!!!

 

[RVTRKN]

After reading "How to Select, Inspect, and Buy an RV" by RV industry consultant

JD Galant, there is no doubt in my mind there needs to be some kind of legislation

to train drivers. He talks about retirees going out and buying their huge motor homes

or 5ers and not having a clue on how to handle them. Some commission driven sales

person sold them the biggest rig they could afford. Usually their incompetence scares

them enough so the rigs are up for sale within a year. Until these rigs are in the

hands of responsible drivers, all of our lives are threatened. And for all the gov't

phobes on here, I'll take sensible socialism over greedy irresponsible capitalism any day.

Well its apparent who you voted for, well thats fine, it is what many Americans has died for, your right to vote for who you want. But if you think Socialism in any form, will help you stay safe on the HWY your wrong. You can regulate/legislate all you want and it still wont stop some Bonehead from doing something stupid and killing someone.



Lets take it from a fresh perspective and maybe you will change your mind. How many new gun laws have they imposed on the law abiding citizens of this great nation, but yet the irresponsible will kill someone anyway. OK, I guess the laws weren't strict enough, so I propose we get tougher and enact new laws, but wait guns aren't safe so we now have to keep guns unloaded with special locks & unloaded in a safe, that was legislated by the socialists. Someone breaks into "my home" and he shoots me because my guns are locked up, the legislation hurt me, because I followed the law.



What has this got to do with driving?, its no different, per the perspective of new legislation or what ever restriction you put on Americans who want to responsibly drive any rig they see fit too own/drive. The greedy salesmen are just feeding their families and paying their taxes, but what about their risk if they don't sell any, he makes nothing, and our taxes pay for him. Socialism is a slowly creeping animal that camouflages itself from the unsuspecting person thinking their doing good for themselves and others. And then just when that person thinks he is safe. WHAMO! That animal is stocking you now and you are losing your rights and freedoms, but by then its too late. So you drive down to the RV dealer and can only buy what the socialists deem is fair/safe to the poor who can't afford them, and tax you per the foot so much that you go away in disgust, but wait, didn't you think it was unfair that someone who could afford them was unjust/unsafe to you and others, but did it with legislation.



Wake up America it is already here and is hurting us all. If you want to legislate do it in your home not mine.

 

[Pavemen]

Well its apparent who you voted for, well thats fine, it is what many Americans has died for, your right to vote for who you want. But if you think Socialism in any form, will help you stay safe on the HWY your wrong. You can regulate/legislate all you want and it still wont stop some Bonehead from doing something stupid and killing someone.

Lets take it from a fresh perspective and maybe you will change your mind. How many new gun laws have they imposed on the law abiding citizens of this great nation, but yet the irresponsible will kill someone anyway. OK, I guess the laws weren't strict enough, so I propose we get tougher and enact new laws, but wait guns aren't safe so we now have to keep guns unloaded with special locks & unloaded in a safe, that was legislated by the socialists. Someone breaks into "my home" and he shoots me because my guns are locked up, the legislation hurt me, because I followed the law.

What has this got to do with driving?, its no different, per the perspective of new legislation or what ever restriction you put on Americans who want to responsibly drive any rig they see fit too own/drive. The greedy salesmen are just feeding their families and paying their taxes, but what about their risk if they don't sell any, he makes nothing, and our taxes pay for him. Socialism is a slowly creeping animal that camouflages itself from the unsuspecting person thinking their doing good for themselves and others. And then just when that person thinks he is safe. WHAMO! That animal is stocking you now and you are losing your rights and freedoms, but by then its too late. So you drive down to the RV dealer and can only buy what the socialists deem is fair/safe to the poor who can't afford them, and tax you per the foot so much that you go away in disgust, but wait, didn't you think it was unfair that someone who could afford them was unjust/unsafe to you and others, but did it with legislation.

Wake up America it is already here and is hurting us all. If you want to legislate do it in your home not mine.

so do you think that a person should not be required to have some understanding of using and maintaining a firearm before purchasing one?

you do not think that taking driver training and paying for that socialist drivers license is not needed?

somethings are just needed for the safety of others, if you do not agree with that, then you have to believe that we should not have any laws.

we need smart and reasonable laws, and the proper enforcement of them, in order to avoid chaos and anarchy and help ensure, if only slightly, the health and safety of the populace.

 

[LBARTLETT]

I think he's saying maybe us lawabiding citizens have enough laws already, it's the lawbreakers whom laws don't matter to anyway



so do you think that a person should not be required to have some understanding of using and maintaining a firearm before purchasing one?do the gangbangers get firearms training before buying guns?



you do not think that taking driver training and paying for that socialist drivers license is not needed? sure, we all do but many illegal aliens (not illegal immigrants) drive without one



somethings are just needed for the safety of others, if you do not agree with that, then you have to believe that we should not have any laws. sure things are needed for safety, like everyone having vehicle insurance but look at how many uninsured drivers are out there, especially the illegals



we need smart and reasonable laws, and the proper enforcement of them, in order to avoid chaos and anarchy and help ensure, if only slightly, the health and safety of the populace. I'm behind you 100% but let's enforce the laws we have before writing any more

 

[RVTRKN]

so do you think that a person should not be required to have some understanding of using and maintaining a firearm before purchasing one?



you do not think that taking driver training and paying for that socialist drivers license is not needed?



somethings are just needed for the safety of others, if you do not agree with that, then you have to believe that we should not have any laws.



we need smart and reasonable laws, and the proper enforcement of them, in order to avoid chaos and anarchy and help ensure, if only slightly, the health and safety of the populace.

News flash, I already have too take a test on firearms and I,m 50 years old with many different weapons and training but it makes the Libs feel safer. So no, I don't! Its just another attempt to get around the 2nd amendment, slowing down the ability to purchase them. I live in So. Cal. , and if during the last riots we had the "waiting period" then it would have been too late for me when the riots grew in size and out of fear for my life and my families life, I bought a couple of guns. So now I will have to take a test and then wait two weeks while the Socialists riot.



Laws were written because some Bonehead was irresponsible for some reason or another. Take the environment for example, irresponsible people dumped crap into the rivers and streams, so we started an environmental protection agency who has enacted a new law that protects some small fish in the Sacramento Delta. That law has now cut off that water to the farmers in those water distribution canals were there losing their farms that have been in there families for three generations, not too mention the drinking water in the So. Cal area. It will cost you money, no mater where you live, because of the shortages. (supply and demand!)



I can agree about laws that are needed, but there are already laws in place for the issue you are talking about, have you read your drivers handbook that you are tested on every four years, owners manual and the owners manual for your RV. Come on, enough is enough.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, I agree completely with how you feel about this issue. However, to ingnore the fact that the RV industry has a problem here would be ingnorance in my opinion. Perhaps the "people" have the responsibility to say something to an obvious driving offender. I don't have the answer. I believe there are some good ideas posted here... including the one you mentioned about having walls for the socialists. I'll leave you with this scenario. Suppose you are driving in the passing lane while going by the guy who we mentioned earlier who lost control of his rig for irresponsible driving. Now supposed he lost control while you were passing and now you are caught in the mix. What an unfortunate situation for a competant driver to have to go through. There must be someway to prevent someone like that from getting behind the wheel.

Best wishes and it is my goal that the silent readers are learning something here.

There is a way to deal with such bad driving as we are discussing here. It can be quite effective. We already have the traffic laws on the books and if used as intended they punish the offenders and leave the rest of us alone. The guy who turned his truck and trailer on their sides and dumped motorcycles and other toys on the roadways should have been ticketed and fined heavily for unsafe or reckless driving, failure to control, improperly secured load, and several other violations. He should then be fined heavily and his license suspended. I think it would then be appropriate for the judge to order him into driver training tailored for towing before his license is reinstated.

I also hope that some of our discussions serve to inform some of the silent readers.

 

[Pavemen]

There is a way to deal with such bad driving as we are discussing here. It can be quite effective. We already have the traffic laws on the books and if used as intended they punish the offenders and leave the rest of us alone. The guy who turned his truck and trailer on their sides and dumped motorcycles and other toys on the roadways should have been ticketed and fined heavily for unsafe or reckless driving, failure to control, improperly secured load, and several other violations. He should then be fined heavily and his license suspended. I think it would then be appropriate for the judge to order him into driver training tailored for towing before his license is reinstated.

I also hope that some of our discussions serve to inform some of the silent readers.

My only problem with this is that someone innocent has to be injured or killed for the offending person to be punished beyond a $300 moving violation. The life of me and my family is on the line when it comes to untrained (or at least uneducated) RV'ers or folks hauling a 18k GVWR 5er behind their Chevy 2500.

Then, like said previously, they would just drive anyway with out a license or insurance.

The reality is that driving a large RV/truck with large trailer is totally different than what is taught in a drivers ed course or simple dirving handbook. Conceptually they are the same, but the realities are not.

 

[Pavemen]

I think he's saying maybe us lawabiding citizens have enough laws already, it's the lawbreakers whom laws don't matter to anyway

so do you think that a person should not be required to have some understanding of using and maintaining a firearm before purchasing one?do the gangbangers get firearms training before buying guns?

you do not think that taking driver training and paying for that socialist drivers license is not needed? sure, we all do but many illegal aliens (not illegal immigrants) drive without one

somethings are just needed for the safety of others, if you do not agree with that, then you have to believe that we should not have any laws. sure things are needed for safety, like everyone having vehicle insurance but look at how many uninsured drivers are out there, especially the illegals

we need smart and reasonable laws, and the proper enforcement of them, in order to avoid chaos and anarchy and help ensure, if only slightly, the health and safety of the populace. I'm behind you 100% but let's enforce the laws we have before writing any more

not going to argue the point about law abiding versus criminal, it was not the point i was trying to make.

sure we can enforce the ones we have as I said, but maybe there needs to be a few more laws on the books to fill in the gaps. In general, we have too many laws, I agree, but many of those are the ones that overlap each other and cause confusion or excessive "red tape".

Also, laws can benefit us. A law that allows CA residents to tow equipment trailers over 10k for personal use the same as they allow RV's over 10k would benefit us.

Of course they could repeal the law that says RVs over 10k are fine without endorsement, but then we get back to the crux of this entire thread, educating drivers in non-typical vehicle setups that they would otherwise have no idea about how to modify their driving style or equipment.

 

[surfbeetle]

Okay, so we have really sparked a debate. I have been a commercial driver for 20 years and I agree that proper training is necessary whether it's a firearm, vehicle operation, computer use, etc. Most Americans agree, we want freedom, no taxation w/o representation, so we don't want laws telling us what we can't do.



How 'bout the insurance companies offer discounts if you have taken classes and you have a good driving record? It's the insurance companies that have to pay out when one of these untrained drivers have a wreck, this idea may benefit everyone.



Feel free to shoot this one down, no offense taken. I'm just trying to offer up a possible solution.