Towing Legislation

[steved]

Pennsylvania has only recently made it more difficult to DOWNGRADE registered weights... still easy to upgrade to the next GVW, but almost impossible to downgrade. The cutoff was 7k and 9k... I paid $98 for my 99 (8800# GVW) and I pay $153 for my 05. 4 (9000# GVW)... great revenue.



And again, going by what is being said, as long as you didn't exceed the hitch weight rating or GVW of the truck, you could potentially drive down the road at 80k (the maximum legal GCVW limit without permits)?? Damn be those recommended numbers... :-laf



Do you (general use, not directed at anyone) really think you could safely handle 80k? Where is the cutoff? 35k? 79,856. 45234234524 pounds? You (again, general use) are making the numbers up as you go along to suit your needs as the hauler... what is your area of expertise to say you know better than the guy who designed the truck... and why is there a maximum trailer weight? Next thing we'll see pickup trucks towing dollies with semi-trailers... its been implied that would be legal.

 

[steved]

Of course I was safe hauling the big trailer.

And again, you know what your equipment is... your are in the MINORITY.

 

[Road Dog]

I think there's a lot of confusion between GVW and licenced GVW. Your licenced GVW is your total weight on the road including trailer and payload (with all sorts of special cases). In BC the licenced GVW is limited to 330#/hp (77,550# for my truck) but in practice you'll run out of GVW (truck or trailer) or GAWR or hitch rating or tire rating first. Only an authorized truck builder can change the actual GVW of a truck. Slapping on some heavier springs or air bags doesn't cut it with vehicle inspectors.

 

[steved]

In the states, its registered GVW or tagged GVW.



The registered GVW is almost too easy to change in some states... in the past nine trucks we've owned, I've been give the option to increase my GVW to the "next higher". This was always an option provided by the dealer, and not something I asked about. So if they were asking me, you know they asked everyone who bought a truck.

 

[HBarlow]

Pennsylvania has only recently made it more difficult to DOWNGRADE registered weights... still easy to upgrade to the next GVW, but almost impossible to downgrade. The cutoff was 7k and 9k... I paid $98 for my 99 (8800# GVW) and I pay $153 for my 05. 4 (9000# GVW)... great revenue.

And again, going by what is being said, as long as you didn't exceed the hitch weight rating or GVW of the truck, you could potentially drive down the road at 80k (the maximum legal GCVW limit without permits)?? Damn be those recommended numbers... :-laf

Do you (general use, not directed at anyone) really think you could safely handle 80k? Where is the cutoff? 35k? 79,856. 45234234524 pounds? You (again, general use) are making the numbers up as you go along to suit your needs as the hauler... what is your area of expertise to say you know better than the guy who designed the truck... and why is there a maximum trailer weight? Next thing we'll see pickup trucks towing dollies with semi-trailers... its been implied that would be legal.

Yes, you're correct. Potentially up to 80k but no, I do not believe I could safely handle 80k combined on a pickup and long before reaching that potential weight the max rated weight of the rear axle would be exceeded as would the GVWR of the truck.

The limit would be easily and clearly determined by the kingpin weight. We both know that kingpin weight is always going to be approximately 15% to 20% of trailer weight so my guess is somewhere around a 20,000 lb. trailer gross weight (around 32,500 gross combined weight) the truck would exceed the rear axle's gross weight limit depending on whether the truck has an aux fuel tank (mine does), a big tool box (mine did and does), and whether is was single cab or quad cab.

This might get some riled up: Some states might even allow the driver to get away with 12,000 lbs. on the rear axle even though our dually Dodges typically have a rear GAWR of 7,500 lbs. because sometimes the inspectors only consider tire capacity and don't worry about the VIN/Weight sticker on the door post. Our dually tires can carry 3,000 lbs. each in round numbers so that would be acceptable if the truck had extra spring leaves or other suspension assist.

I personally wouldn't go there though. I wouldn't want to pull a fifth wheel or gooseneck heavier than 20,000 lbs. or so and wouldn't do that unless I was doing it commercially for hire.

I wouldn't own one that heavy. My HH fiver has a max weight of 14,500 which puts my gross combined at 26,000 lbs. I wouldn't pull heavier than that on a regular basis with a dually pickup.

Back to GCWR. Factory gross combined weight ratings are really only about the truck's ability to maintain a reasonable speed while pulling a heavy trailer up a typical interstate highway 6% grade on a hot August day with a/c running w/o overheating or burning up the automatic transmission or manual clutch.

I'm sure we would agree that a dually pickup couldn't possibly stop a heavy fiver w/o trailer brakes so as long as the towed load has good brakes the trailer weight is not a huge concern.

 

[steved]

This might get some riled up: Some states might even allow the driver to get away with 12,000 lbs. on the rear axle even though our dually Dodges typically have a rear GAWR of 7,500 lbs. because sometimes the inspectors only consider tire capacity and don't worry about the VIN/Weight sticker on the door post. Our dually tires can carry 3,000 lbs. each in round numbers so that would be acceptable if the truck had extra spring leaves or other suspension assist.

Michigan comes to mind?? Pretty sure they have an "unlimited" gross weight, and the limiting factor is the number of tires in contact with the road. Certain Kentucky roads (state built) are also permitted to have loads in excessive 80k.



I think the roads have to be state funded, because federally funded highways are only permitted 80k? Something like that...

 

[HBarlow]

I think there's a lot of confusion between GVW and licenced GVW. Your licenced GVW is your total weight on the road including trailer and payload (with all sorts of special cases). In BC the licenced GVW is limited to 330#/hp (77,550# for my truck) but in practice you'll run out of GVW (truck or trailer) or GAWR or hitch rating or tire rating first. Only an authorized truck builder can change the actual GVW of a truck. Slapping on some heavier springs or air bags doesn't cut it with vehicle inspectors.

You're talking about BC (bring cash) though. Most of our US states are nowhere near as heavy-handed or revenue hungry as BC. I talked to a DOT officer at a scale in Alberta once. He told me not to stop in the scales in AB, they weren't interested in little guys hauling w/dually pickups then.

 

[jelag]

We travel BC and Alberta all the time with a dually... . they (BC) have only looked at our combined weight and tire rating... . we used to travel BC with an 04 dually and trailer that weighted 22K lbs (trailer only)... with combination plates... on the truck... once you have a CDL, combination plates, the proper cab card and authorization to run in the state your driving through... most of the problems go away...

We ran this truck through BC once or twice a month for almost 4 years and through all those inspections I don't ever remember them asking HP... IF the axles and tires are correct, you have the correct plates and permits, your free to go...

Hope this helps...

 

[Road Dog]

You're talking about BC (bring cash) though. Most of our US states are nowhere near as heavy-handed or revenue hungry as BC. I talked to a DOT officer at a scale in Alberta once. He told me not to stop in the scales in AB, they weren't interested in little guys hauling w/dually pickups then.

I've read that on various US RV sites but if you're just pulling a travel trailer scales are optional and free if you want to check your weights. If you're hauling commercially then of course you have to check in at the scales. You don't see many 1T duallys for commercial hauling since it's cheaper to buy a 3T or 5T up here.



BC has 10 mountain ranges so you don't see many big (30'+) RVs. Most highways have 10% grades at some point.

 

[AABEN]

PAVEMAN did you get to vote about wearing seat belts? Did you get to vote on the speed limit DID you get to vote on the rase of taxes?????? Why do you want some one telling you what you can or can not do?????

 

[GAmes]

you may not get cited and the insurance may pay for damages, but wait for the civil suit from whomever else was involved and has a claim. The plaintiff simply has to put out enough evidence to be reasonably accepted by the judge/jury as true. A civil suit could be way worse than any adjustment in your insurance rates or fines from a citation. If you could have reasonably known that you were overweight or something else.

As I pointed out in post #92 a civil suit can be brought against you even if you are not at fault, so worrying about that will just give you ulcers. There is nothing illegal about loading the truck and trailer up to their limits, i. e. tire, drivers license, registration so who is it that determines you are "overweight"? WHO??? Recently there was a fatality wreck in CA that involved an 18 wheeler making a u-turn on a divided highway (not a freeway). The local newspaper decided it was the truckdrivers fault, even though the car that t-boned his trailer was doing about 80 mph in a 65 mph zone. I can guarantee that if it was the car doing the u-turn and the 18 wheeler going 80 that the common bias would say that the truck driver was at fault. Sucks, don't it?

 

[HBarlow]

Pavemen,

Do you own or have you ever towed a recreational trailer? Does the fact that your signature doesn't list one perhaps indicate that you really don't know much about towing a large trailer and assume that others who do don't know any more than you do about towing them? Could it be that possibly, just possibly you have a bit of envy or resentment toward those who do?

 

[HBarlow]

As I pointed out in post #92 a civil suit can be brought against you even if you are not at fault, so worrying about that will just give you ulcers. There is nothing illegal about loading the truck and trailer up to their limits, i. e. tire, drivers license, registration so who is it that determines you are "overweight"? WHO??? Recently there was a fatality wreck in CA that involved an 18 wheeler making a u-turn on a divided highway (not a freeway). The local newspaper decided it was the truckdrivers fault, even though the car that t-boned his trailer was doing about 80 mph in a 65 mph zone. I can guarantee that if it was the car doing the u-turn and the 18 wheeler going 80 that the common bias would say that the truck driver was at fault. Sucks, don't it?

Hey Gary, are you still leaving for Alaska this month?

 

[GAmes]

Hey Gary, are you still leaving for Alaska this month?

Yup, so far. I'll call you when we are about to go "wheels up".

 

[GAmes]

Recently there was a fatality wreck in CA that involved an 18 wheeler making a u-turn on a divided highway (not a freeway). The local newspaper decided it was the truckdrivers fault, even though the car that t-boned his trailer was doing about 80 mph in a 65 mph zone. I can guarantee that if it was the car doing the u-turn and the 18 wheeler going 80 that the common bias would say that the truck driver was at fault.

Here is a link to the wreck. Notice that it appears the car was traveling in the same direction as the big rig



HollisterFreelance.com | CHP releases identities of Hwy. 152 accident survivors

 

[Pavemen]

Here is a link to the wreck. Notice that it appears the car was traveling in the same direction as the big rig

HollisterFreelance.com | CHP releases identities of Hwy. 152 accident survivors

I know that stretch of road. That is a dangerous spot, in fact the overpass you see is new within the past few years since it used to be a left turn/stop to cross the highway that is now the fly over. Lots of accidents and close calls there. Especially since the traffic on the flyover has just come down a 4% grade for the last 2 miles, lots of speeders there, TT's included.

That truck driver is an idiot for trying to make a u-turn across the median at that location. He could have traveled another 1,000 ft, made an unobstructed left turn onto the other highway and turned around in the many large parking lots or streets 1/2 mile down that highway to the left.

Where he is in the middle of the road is real close to the flyover exit (as you can see in the video) as well as right next to the on ramp from that highway to the left (the right hand lane with the TT stopped far back). I can not see how any driver would attempt a u-turn at that location.