Towing story with BIG fine involved

[Prostock]

Are any other states like PA with their laws regarding towing trailers over 10,000lbs?



I was surprised to hear from PennDOT that this applies to ALL vehicles towed through the state, no matter where they are registered.

Anybody have advise or comments on the following?

Last Friday night on my way to Cecil County Dragway the following occured: We got off the PA turnpike exit 19. I asked the toll person were to go to get a hotel with trailer parking. He directed me to exit 1B and said go to the Days Inn. Upon arrival, there was a patrol car sitting in the lot without his lights on. Were we set up? Read on. I parked the truck and my father went in to check for a room. As I let the truck cool (turbo diesel) the cop approached and asked for license and registration. I handed it to him and asked what I did. He replied "Nothing, I am checking for false registration. " The next words were "Ah-ha, just what I thought, you are overloaded!" According to this fine man, Pennsylvania commonwealth law requires the truck to carry a tag and registration over the weight of the combined unit. We were using a 99 Dodge Dually with a 10,500 GVWR and a 99 Haulmark Edge with a 12,000 GVWR. He escorted us through the Lower Swatara slums, past two prostitutes, to the local weigh station. Keep in mind that it was 1:30 A. M. . We weighed out at 19,440 pounds. Fortunately, we forgot our block of wood and couldn't get the trailer off the truck to weigh seperately. He took us back to the hotel and after another hour and a half, (3 A. M. ), cited us for being 9440 pounds over our registration limit. Evidently, in PA they don't add the trailers GVWR to cover the total weight. This little paper work error got us a ticket for $1,240. 00. Thats right, more than if I would have ran over him when he was done or gone out and got a DUI. I feel that this is total bullsh!t and would like to know if anyone out there knows the Penn State laws or could recommend some advise or an attorney in the Harrisburg area. Thanks in advance. Take it from me, get your registration on your tow vehicle right and be careful!

http://www.dragraceresults.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=004270



Comments?

 

[RustyJC]

Well, he would have a heck of a time with a Texas truck. You only have to carry a copy of your registration if you're a commercial vehicle under Texas law.



Rusty

 

[Prostock]

If you don't have your registration with you, how do you prove ownership if you're stopped?



Not having registration is a fine of itself in PA.

 

[RustyJC]

Because the VIN number is on the Texas proof of liability insurance card that we must carry.



Rusty

 

[Prostock]

Interesting.



Trailer's here that are under 10,000 don't need to be insured, they are covered by the vehicle doing the towing.

 

[RustyJC]

Our 5ver's liability is carried by the truck's insurance as well. I do have a proof of insurance card for the 5ver, however, which states "No Liability Insurance". Doesn't make much sense except it does serve to link the 5ver's VIN to me as owner.



The operator of a non-commercial vehicle stopped by a LEO in Texas for a traffic violation is routinely asked, "May I have your driver's license and proof of insurance?"



Rusty

 

[Prostock]

Same here, just insert registration in there.



You must also submit both for the annual safety inspection.

 

[TowPro]

Here in PA, if your trailer is under 10K GVW it has just a standard "cheep" lisence plate (I think there $12. 00 per year), but over 10K it cost more as you are paying for weight on the trailer tags.





I think the idea is that your truck has to cover the weight, unless your trailer is over 10K, then the trailer has weight on it.



But how can somebody with a Station Waggon tag (most sport uts) tow a under 10K trailer? They sure don't have the weight covered with a station waggon tag.



PS: I am sure the turnpike guy/girl did not call the cops on you, they don't see or care about your tags as they just collect your money. All they know is the scales at each booth told them what class to charge you for.

 

[Straight6Jeff]

Sounds like you're getting porked. What does your door tag say for GCVWR? taht is the weight allowed for truck and trailer. Not only that, if your GVW is 10500, and you wiefghed in at 19440, that still would not be 9440 over.

 

[Prostock]

This was not me, but something I read.



The door tag has nothing to do with it. They are using whatever number you used when you registered your truck.



It's all about revenue for the state. It's a difference of $81 a year for a plate VS $400 - $500 a year (if registered in PA).



I think they came up with the 9440 by taking what the vehicle was REGISTERED at (10,000lbs in this case) VS what the truck AND trailer actually weighed and subtracted one from the other.

 

[paccool]

GVW and GCVWR are two different things. GVW is the total weight allowed on the truck and GCVWR is the max allowed on the truck and what it can tow. I think I'm missing something here. What is the GCVWR on your truck? I don't doubt you were over weight but I think it was probably only a couple thousand pounds, not 9400. Please help me understand this as this is something that could really screw up a lot of people!



Stan

 

[Prostock]

Again, this was NOT me.



I did ask PennDOT about this, and this was their response:

Thank you for contacting Driver and Vehicle Services.



The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum weight the manufacturer specifies that the truck, or trailer can weigh. There is also an unladen weight which is the weight of the truck, or trailer when it does not contain any load, but is equipped for service (I. E. all fluids are full). A truck, or trailer, can be registered (GVW) at any weight that does not exceed the GVWR, or that does not go below the GVW.



If the GVWR is 10,001 pounds for the trailer, but you have it registered (GVW) at 10,000 pounds, or less then

the combination weight is not needed and the truck does not need to be registered (GVW) at a weight to cover both the truck and the trailer.



If the trailer is registered (GVW) at more than 10,000 pounds, then the truck must be registered in combination. The registered weight of the truck must then cover the total weigh of the truck and the trailer, plus the weight of the largest load that would be hauled in the truck, or the trailer.



If your truck and trailer are registered in PA, if you could respond with the title, plate, or VIN for each of them and include your name and address I can check the records and let you know whether or not you need the combination registration.



The rule regarding the combination registration is required for all towing vehicles regardless of the type, or whether or not the trailer is registered in another state.



When responding, please include all previous e-mails.



Thank you for your inquiry,



Amy Harper

PA Department of Transportation

www.dmv.state.pa.us

 

[rob10858]

uh oh, my favorite subject

to make it short and sweet, carry a comb weight on the truck, to the max, just under comm weight. the tax man will be happy, the dot will be happy, and you won't have too many more problems from now on. you might not like paying the extra tax on a 25999 pull unit, but a couple of 1000 fines kind of make up the difference. by the way, if that dot man was in the motel parking lot, that's private property, not public roads. just another example of how different states are beginning to crack down on , what they consider, overloaded pickups.

 

[QRTRHRS]

While there is a lot of truth in the original story as posted by Tom, I have a problem believing all of it. The gist of the story is noteworthy though.



"He replied "Nothing, I am checking for false registration. " The next words were "Ah-ha, just what I thought, you are overloaded!" According to this fine man, Pennsylvania commonwealth law requires the truck to carry a tag and registration over the weight of the combined unit. "



You can register at 10k, no problem. Nothing "false" about it. It becomes a problem on the scale or as we have discussed prior about race cars situations, when there is money involved. Being over of course is a problem. I thought it was normal to have every axle weighed so there would be no question where the problem lies.



Other than large scale house operations and DOT "stings", you don't usually have problems that time of night. But then I don't get out much these days.



Packman, I know what your saying about private property. But, I can tell you something that I know is fact as I have seen it as well as many of my friends.



One of the townships in my area has an officer that is DOT qualified. He is in the habit of using this beer distributer's parking lot to do his checks. I have no idea if he has been challenged in court or not.

 

[VicR]

Probably a long shot but...

From the gist of your email, it sounds like you were on your way to be a participant in some large event at the track. My memory is a little fuzzy on the details, but one of those eastern states did a few stings at swap meets (might have been Penn and the Chryslers at Carlise?) for sales tax collection 5-7 years back. It was virtually going to shut down all of the car show's swap meets because the gov't was going to require all vendors have business permits and have to collect sales tax, etc. The vendors grouped together and told the event organizers how they wouldn't be back next year, and the event organizers (who were local and brought a lot of tourist dollars into the community through events like these) had enough clout to get the revenuers to back off.



I don't know if it would do any good, but you might consider writing the track owners/ event organizers and tell them how things like these are going to keep you (and all of your friends) from coming to/ participating in future events. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, cc the local chamber of commerce, the Governor's commission on tourism, etc. And tell them your next letter will be to the NHRA, SCCA, National Dragster, Good Sam (weight issues apply to RV's?) etc notifying them of the situation.



The east coast might not be near as mindful of tourist dollars as we are here in Nevada, so it might not do you any good, but in Nevada everyone from the Governor's office on down will go great lengths to avoid a public black eye that might chase off tourist dollars.



Good luck!



-Vic

 

[RJ2]

What is needed to be legal in Florida to haul a 20 +5

gooseneck loaded with a backhoe or equipment, Non commercial just for personal use. Also what would I need if I went into Georgia to bring back a machine. Does DOT have a web site?

 

[rob10858]

we'd heard rumors that there was going to be some kind of summer crack-down on non comm pickups. alot of this came from fatal crashes involving overloaded 5th wheel rigs. admit it, we've all seen tandems that make you shake your head. keep us informed. after 17 years of this bs, maybe we can help. ive got some hints, to save you guys alot of headaches , fire away...

 

[QRTRHRS]

Look here RJ2

http://www.fmcsa. dot.gov/links.htm

 

[78repowerwagon]

In Missouri the truck has to be licensed to haul more than the gcvw. If your total truck/trailer combo is 19500# then you have to buy 24000# plates or risk a heafty fine.

 

[danandamy]

What really makes this funny is from what I've read and heard, Penn. has some of the absolutly suckiest roads in the entire nation. Wonder what they're doing with all the money they're collecting?



nevergoingtoPenn Dan