towing with DD stage 3's and EZ

[CraigJohnson]

I know there are some guys here who have towed with this combo. I just want to hear a few more accounts of what egt's are like and how fuel mileage is affected. Power is strong I assume. I currently am running an ez and 275's. Its pretty hard to get egt's over 1150 with this setup. I'm looking for a little more bark but don't want to have to change the turbo to control ex. temps. I know a new cluth will be needed.



The truck is a 2000, 4wd, 6 spd with 4" exh. , and k&n. As preveously suggested, I have gagues already. I have a 100 mile daily commute so I don't want to kill mileage, and I will occasionally be towing 7 - 10,000 lbs.



Thanks guys,



Craig

 

[Loren]

Craig,



I'm not running the same thing you are asking about, but my information may help.



I have the TST injectors and a PowerEdge Comp box. I run the box on #3 so I don't have to worry about EGT's or my clutch. I found that higher settings on the Comp will boost EGT high enough that I have to keep an eye on it. Setting #5 will slip the clutch, but #3 seems to hold just fine.



I think you will see better, not worse, fuel mileage with the DD injectors and the EZ box, at least compared to the original mileage. I believe it's because the EZ box advances the timing to a more fuel efficient setting, but that's a guess on my part. My experience with enhancements on my 1995 12-valve as well as my 2000 24-valve is that they will either not change mileage at all, or will improve it.



You may want to give the clutch a while before you decide to replace it. Maybe mine's a really good factory clutch, but so far it's holding well. If you need a new one after all, check out South Bend Clutch. Peter has a very good reputation on this web site.



Happy trailering.



Loren

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Loren, what is your personal EGT redline? I consider anything under 1300 degrees acceptable, at least for relatively short pulls, and my Comp alone even on 5x5 will not go above 1200 - I wouldn't mind having a little bit more poop, but am also wary of clutch and EGT problems...

 

[BFC]

Just got back from a 2000 mile towing trip with my 10 K fiver and with my comp on 3, I could get 1500 on long grade if I maintained 65. I don't normally tow like that but it was my first "real" towing with the new transmission and it was kind of cool to maintain speed on long hills and see the transmission temp stay right on 150*, guess more air is in order LOL.



Glenn

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Did you try towing any higher than 3? According to Aaron at Edge, the Comp actually DEfuels at 3 and lower - so you MIGHT do better on higher settings as far as EGT goes... I know I keep mine at 1200 or lower in pulling grades at 65 - Comp on 5x5 and boost at 30-32 psi... Usually right at 2000 RPM in OD...

 

[BFC]

Actually I didn't. 99% of the time it wasn't an issue so I didn't play with it. Will give me something to do next time



Glenn

 

[mgoncalves]

Gary, you're talking sublevels right? The way I understand it is with a comp hooked up fully, at level 1 you don't get anymore fuel at boost than stock. However with the sublevels 1-3 you get less low-boost fueling than stock and 4-5 you get more low boost fueling than stock. The sublevel values stay the same throughout the power settings, so if you are on power level 5 and sublevel 1 you will have less low boost fueling than stock and way more fuel than stock once boost comes up.



I know this doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand, but can see where some might read that part wrong and really be confused.

 

[mgoncalves]

Talk about confusing, read my above post!!



To clear the mud a little, a comp will have/send more fuel at power levels 2-5, and at level 1 be stock fuel level. Of course timing is adjusted on all settings.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here's the way the experts at Edge describe settings, both for the Comp and the EZ:



======================

There are two types of levels on the Comp Power Levels, and Sub Levels. The Power Level sets the power increase under full boost that the Comp module will add, regardless of Sub Level setting. The Sub Level settings allow for adjustment of low boost fueling eliminating smoke if larger injectors or turbos are added.



Sub levels 1-3 on the Comp will provide defueling below stock. The defueling mode is entered if three conditions are met: rpm and boost are below a set value, and if stock fueling is being increased beyond a set rate. These conditions are different for each sub level 1-3. Once defuel is entered the rate of fueling increase is limited resulting in the defueling to reduce smoke. Defuel mode is exited once stock fuel equals the fueling from the limited increase, this way the transition is smooth and cannot be felt while driving. Defuel mode is entered the easiest in sub level 1 and has the smallest allowable fuel increase, while sub level 3 defuel mode is not entered as easily and has a larger allowable fuel increase.



Sub Levels 4 and 5 (and EZ jumper settings 1-3) allow adjustment of the additional fueling above stock based on boost level. Sub Level 5 (EZ jumper setting 3) will add the most fuel at low boost, Sub Level 4 corresponds to jumper setting 2 on the EZ. The amount of additional fuel to be added is calculated, the amount actually added after being compared to boost from the total is as shown below:

EZ Jumper setting 1 33% is added at 0 psi boost

100% is added at 20 psi boost



EZ Jumper setting 2 50% is added at 0 psi boost

100% is added at 15 psi boost



EZ Jumper setting 3 67% is added at 0 psi boost

100% is added at 10 psi boost



Fuel may be added at 0 psi boost on all Sub Levels and EZ Jumper settings unless the defuel mode is entered as described above.



Power Level 1 on the Comp is the same as the EZ, on Power Levels 2-5 addition power is added via the wire tap onto the VP44 injection pump. If the pump wire is not attached with a Comp Levels 2-5 can be ran, but the power gain is not any higher than Level 1, the power will come in much earlier in the throttle but overall gain is the same. "

====================

 

[mgoncalves]

Yep, that's the post where I learned what the adjustments do. It clarifies the sublevel settings perfectly, but doesn't really get into detail about the power levels. I am assuming since you have to have the pump wire hooked up to see more power than level one, they are adding fuel on power levels 2-5, while still being able to have less than stock low boost fuel levels via the sublevel settings.



To summarize, I think Craig's best move, assuming his 2000 is an ETC, would be to upgrade to the comp. That would give a noticeable power increase, and give full control of adjustments when towing in case it gets to hot.

 

[Loren]

Gary,



My personal absolute limit is 1300 degrees. I try to keep EGT below 1250.



The tests I ran to decide on settings for my use were several 0-60 runs with a passenger timing for me. The times did get shorter as I increased levels, but not enough to warrant using levels 4 or 5. I haven't towed above level 3 except for very rare occasions, such as to get maximum power for passing someone. I select level 3 again after the higher power isn't required.



My goal with this is to preserve my clutch. I also don't want to have to keep an eye on the EGT gauge during long climbs. On my truck, level 3, sublevel 3 works really well for towing.



When I'm empty, I run on level 1, sublevel 2 or 3. I found that sublevel 1 resulted in a hesitation just off idle during acceleration. It's probably that defueling you mentioned. With the truck alone (no trailer) I have plenty of power at level 1, and can always select more if I need it.



Remember, I also have a set of TST injectors. I installed them before the Comp box, so I don't know how much power I could get from the Comp box alone.



I hope this tells you what you were interested in.



Loren

 

[CRegal]

Craig,



I have towed with just my comp box set on 5/5 with about 7k for many trips & averaged about 350 miles a tank, easily keeping the egts under control.



I installed dd3's and turned the comp off & ended up getting on 300 miles per tank. I did try leaving the comp on 1/1 (ez setting)but it didnt affect the milage. My egts were about 200° higher, pushing it to the 1300 limit uphill.



If your going to do alot fo towing & are concered about milage & egts, then go with dd2's.



This was all done with the stock turbo.

 

[CraigJohnson]

Well, I think you guys have about answered all my questions. Good info from everyone. CRegal, that mileage info you provided is just what I was looking for. It appears that the DD3's definately get worse mileage regardless of conditions. With almost 500 miles of commuting per week, I think the comp. box is the way to go for me. At a later date when either my commute is shorter or I get another vehicle, maybe I'll consider adding some 3's. I've had 275's and an EZ for about 75,000 miles and the mileage has been great. It sounds like I can accomplish the same thing with the comp and 275's with a little self control and low power settings, and have the power I am craving when I feel the need.



Thanks again guys,



Craig

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Thanks for the info Loren - it's starting to sound like the best combo for power AND overall economy/driveability are the DDII's with my Comp...