Trailer brake problem or trucks' intergrated trailer brake problem?

[JFK]

Two months ago we got a new ride, 2015 Big Horn and 1 month later we got a "new" R.V. (Keystone "Hideout" 26' travel trailer). After setting the trucks' integrated brake controller to "heavy electric" & adjusting the "gain" to 10, I couldn't get the trailer brakes to "lock up" while using the "manual" slider. I was doing this while still on the dealers' lot. The truck was traveling @ 1 MPH. I could hear & feel the trailer brakes activating, but they wouldn't "lock up". Knowing the brakes were "green" and needed some miles put on them before the shoes would seat to the drums and could be adjusted, I drove home. After getting home I hitched up a flat bed, double axle, trailer (with electric brakes) to see how it responded to the new truck. The trailer brakes "locked up" with the trucks' gain set at 4. I thought, problem solved, trucks' working fine, it's the new trailer brakes that need adjusted. Took the trailer back to the dealer & had the brakes adjusted but still couldn't get the brakes to "lock up". The tech performing the maintenance spoke with me and stated they checked the brakes with "their" (Voyageur) controller and the brakes "locked up". He went on to say, "we've experienced problems with these new trucks that have integrated trailer brakes". The trailer is still at the dealers' waiting other parts, but the brakes are still in question. Has anyone experienced this type of problem and if so how did you resolve it?

 

[Dieselnerd]

I never had a problem with my integrated controller. If yours worked fine with a different trailer, it's logical to believe the new trailer is at fault. Have them show you the lockup with a different controller while actually pulling the trailer, not with a wheel jacked up. There have been very few problems with the built in controllers, some have had issues with the electric over hydraulic but not with ordinary trailer brakes.

You can also pull the breakaway switch and see if you can pull the trailer forward. You may have wiring issues in the new trailer, wires too small or poor connections.

I'm betting the problem is in the trailer...

 

[MichaelOverfield]

My Outback 21 RS (made also by Keystone) had to have a complete re-wire. OEM wire gauge was too small, but worse, it rubbed through wire insulation in the axles and intermittently grounded causing intermittent brakes the axle tubes were also not well sealed, and full of water! I had to blow them out with compressed air, and heat to dry them, then seal them up where the wires went through..

When new, my trailer brakes NEVER fully locked up (3 different trucks, 2 different controllers, one integrated). With a re-wire, they can now lock if I boost up the gain, but I now have 12 Ga wire all the way to the plug, and new self-adjusting drum brakes too, a mere couple of dollars more ea over the OEM drum brakes which were not self adjusting...

Your issue clearly looks to be trailer, but I can speak of a integrated failure on a GMC truck I had which had complete failure of that controller.. but does not seem relevant to your issue.

 

[Terry Jay]

Brake wire in axle tube will abrade and go to ground, usually at 12,000 to 15,000 miles. Presto, everything is going to ground and no brakes. Absent a quite unique issue in the truck, the trailer is where it is at and where it will be again.

 

[jacknife]

I would think your brakes shoes may not be seated in yet. I had that problem when I put new shoes on the gain on 10 and it was still rolling. 300 miles much better, They did lock up when emergency was pulled but that is max juice from batteries in trl.

 

[mweiman]

I just went through the same thing with a customers trailer, brand new and brakes would not lock to pass inspection. The company told him to pull the trailer with the brakes applied to seat or burnish them. Did this a couple times while being careful to not get them too hot and they work much better.

 

[crispyboy]

I also had this problem with new brakes on my travel trailer. It took several hundred miles and readjustment of the brake shoes. The brakes are much, much better.
I would also look at the gage of wiring on the trailer brakes and ground wire. They should be at least 12 ga wire.

 

[JFK]

I thank you all for your responses. I apologize for the tardiness of my response, but it took the dealer this long to fix the problems (in addition to the brake snafu 3 other items had to be dealt with). It was indeed the trailer. The magnets were changed and now I have brakes. I didn't get to talk with the technician(s) that did the repair, so I don't know how it was determined the magnets were a fault, nor do I have any idea regarding wire gauge size for the brake system. As to "seating" the shoes, between driving the new trailer off the lot, to home base (230 miles); initial maiden voyage of first camp trip & return to home base (300 miles); and return trailer to dealer (230 miles), I would believe the brakes were "seated". Additionally, to cover my bases, it took the vehicle to a "Dodge" dealership and had them test the brake controller,,,,,,,,worked perfect.

 

[RMaynard]

I own a 2015 Ram 3500 diesel and I also have the same issue. Stopped at the dealer and even the mechanic said he does not like the way these systems work. I will be looking into this matter further , Roger

 

[SnoKing]

And a lot of times if the bearings have a grease fitting, someone pumps to much grease in them. One should never blindly pump grease in with a grease gun. Boat trailers that go in the water, yes. Dry land trailer, just repack the bearings correctly every few years.

Chris

 

[GAmes]

One should never blindly pump grease in with a grease gun. Boat trailers that go in the water, yes. Dry land trailer, just repack the bearings correctly every few years.

I agree, putting EZ lube hubs on a vehicle with brakes is an abomination. Using the grease zerks is a really dumb thing to do.

 

[GCroyle]

Maybe over mentioned, maybe overlooked but I truly feel that trailer brake troubleshooting benefits from using an IR Temp Gun to check for uniform heating of drums or in my case, rotors. Braking creates heat, look for uniform heat, cold drum = not braking as well as others.

And a great general diagnostic aid for hub temps and tires too. And drum roll please works great to help dial in a big griddle temp for a crowd of flapjacks. Everybody wonders, what's he doing now?

 

[TXSP]

I have a 2013 RAM 2500 diesel which I use to pull a 37' fifth wheel. With the gain on the controller set at 10, the trailer still feels like the trailer is pushing it as the truck nose dips when braking. Dodge dealer has really tried to help, updating software, etc however still have the issue. Open for suggestions.
Thanks

 

[SnoKing]

I have a 2013 RAM 2500 diesel which I use to pull a 37' fifth wheel. With the gain on the controller set at 10, the trailer still feels like the trailer is pushing it as the truck nose dips when braking. Dodge dealer has really tried to help, updating software, etc however still have the issue. Open for suggestions.
Thanks

So what happens when you are rolling along slow and manually apply the brakes with the dash lever? If you do not get good brakes that way, chances are it is not the truck! The next step is best done on gravel. Unplug the truck and pull the emergency pin/cable on the front of the trailer and try to drive forward and see it brakes are locked up, which they should be. IF the trailer moves forward without dragging wheels in the gavel it time to look inside the drums for grease, check everything out, adjust the brakes up until the wheels will not turn by hand and back off a few clicks until the wheel again turns by hand. Retest!

Also might find a friend to tow the trailer and see if he has the same issue with your brakes.

SNOKING

 

[RMaynard]

Snoking , if you supply me with an email address I can send you what the dealer gave to me about these brake controllers. They gave me a print out from "Star" their info site that Ram uses for info. -- email address removed -- I have a 2015 Ram 3500. Roger

 

[SnoKing]

Snoking , if you supply me with an email address I can send you what the dealer gave to me about these brake controllers. They gave me a print out from "Star" their info site that Ram uses for info. -- email address removed -- I have a 2015 Ram 3500. Roger

Reading what Roger sent me. I have to modify something I said above. The brake controller can see a problem, and shutdown and not work, however the manual level still functions to apply the trailer brakes. So if you get good brakes with the manual lever and not the pedal, then the ITBM might be seeing a problem and shutting down as noted in the Star document. SNOKING

 

[TXSP]

So what happens when you are rolling along slow and manually apply the brakes with the dash lever? If you do not get good brakes that way, chances are it is not the truck! The next step is best done on gravel. Unplug the truck and pull the emergency pin/cable on the front of the trailer and try to drive forward and see it brakes are locked up, which they should be. IF the trailer moves forward without dragging wheels in the gavel it time to look inside the drums for grease, check everything out, adjust the brakes up until the wheels will not turn by hand and back off a few clicks until the wheel again turns by hand. Retest!

Also might find a friend to tow the trailer and see if he has the same issue with your brakes.

SNOKING

Thank you for your quick response. This is what I have done:
1) disconnected electric from truck to 5th wheel
2) pulled emergency pin on trailer allowing 12volts from 5th wheel battery to 5th wheel brakes
3) brakes on 5th wheel locked as we tried to pull forward
4) connected electric truck / trailer
5) measured voltage output at trailer with gain set on 10 which was 7.3 volts
6) manual brake for Co controller does not work well either

My Email is -- email address removed --

Thanks!!

 

[jhenderson]

Do a search on this forum for the problem. I went into great detail on the operation of the 2015 itbm. How to test and what readings you will get. The 7.5 volts you found is typical. This is why a lot of heavy haulers have gone aftermarket.

 

[CWade]

Here is the print out that RMaynard is referring to. This is also an experiment in posting files!

 

[sellis1053]

Trailer brakes

Snoking , if you supply me with an email address I can send you what the dealer gave to me about these brake controllers. They gave me a print out from "Star" their info site that Ram uses for info. -- email address removed -- I have a 2015 Ram 3500. Roger

Can you send me the info on the Ram brake controller? I've started having issues where, after applying the brakes to stop, they disconnect and then reconnect after a few minutes. -- email address removed --