Training an "Alfa" dog

[fox]

I really need some help breaking this dog to comands.

She is 94 lbs. and my wife can't physically control her, the dog responds to my comands generally, but when she gets free she is really wild.

Last night she pulled loose , wife chased her for an hour, really making a fool of herself- screaming , cussing etc. When I got home , she wanted to shoot the dog-really.

Is the idea of shackels a good thought?



BTW, the dog responds to sight of a bull whip and a stun gun. OF course I/we will not use them on her, for those about to jump me for the thought!!



The dog gets this look in her eye like she is possed, just before the escape happens.

Dogs name is Scupper, for those responding.



P. S. I keep the guns out of reach/disarmed from the wife while this training is underway.



We are about to find a bigger home for this Scupper, like a good farm. She needs to run.

I want to break her mentally not physically, as I feel beating animals only makes them more distant and harder to train. Our last dog was a beta lab that would do anything for us. I've posted about her before, Her name Spout, she new 70 + words!!!

 

[Dl5treez]

What breed?



Is Scupper submissive/responsive to you and your commands all or most of the time? If so, good. You're already the Alpha in her 'pack' -- much easier when the dog at least behaves for one of you.



What is happening is Scupper sees your wife as either a peer or beta, and your wife needs to be another alpha, in this case the alpha female.



Some quick rambling ideas & examples that work for me & my dogs:



Have your wife become a part of controlling all of Scupper's daily activities. Like with feeding, change the location of her dish, practice picking up the dish before Scupper is finished, better yet both you and your wife sit down to 'eat' in front of Scupper and don't let her eat until both you and your wife are done. Keeping Scupper's dish with you and then placing it down for her after you're done shows Scupper that you AND your wife control her food.



Scupper's favorite toy at playtime will now become your wife's toy and Scupper will only get it when your wife is 'done' with it. Use a short leash when walking, don't be afraid to use firm correction jerks and collar tugs to keep Scupper in an area that your wife feels comfortable with... . Remember you, well in this case your wife, is in control--even if Scupper hasn't had her walk all day, if she disobeys, then the walk is over. Make the walk, etc a reward for her and she'll quickly figure out that your wife calls the shots and can take away fun time whenever she feels like it.



I could ramble on forever, but I've always had large breed dogs (100+ pounds) and have used the same "gentle aggression" with each one, and they've all been my bestest, bestest friends.



I've never hit my dogs, or used any sort of "correction devices" except for short lead ropes and clickers. Grasping their collar and getting in their face with a quiet yet aggressive voice tone is similar to your high school football coach grabbing you by the facemask to get his point across.

 

[fox]

Scupper is a full blood Black Lab.

She is fully responsive to ME when I raise my voice.

But when we are outside , if she is about to pull out of her collar ( it is now better fit to her) she gets this look like I'm FREE!!!

She does see my wife as a peer, you are right.

The real issue is when we are outside, she refuses most commands by me ans all by my wife.

I had forgotten a lot. Will train my wife to become the alfa female over scupper.

Many thanks!

 

[JApol]

Composition errors that would make my college English teacher roll over in the grave I hope the miserable shrew is in... .



I think we are all in the same boat

 

[gonehuntingagain]

When Scupper gets loose and your wife chases her, it is a fun game for the dog. The game needs to end - walk away and ignore the dog (hopefully you have a fenced yard to do this in). Labs need a lot of exercise, and after they get enough they usually calm down (somewhat) and are easier to work with.

My buddy's dog is a female yellow lab and she was the same way as a pup - she loved getting people to chase her when she was let loose. Ignoring her until she came over to get attention then putting her in her kennel without giving her attention put a quick stop to her not listening.

 

[BRobertson]

I have had good results with the german pinch collars.

They look deadly, but are a lot safer for large dogs and really get their attention.

Bob

 

[dtygart]

Try reading some books by Jean Donaldson (Culture Clash, Dogs Are From Neptune) or some by Ian Dunbar, DVM. These discuss rewarding posivite behavior and not rewarding bad.



David and Gypsy

K9 handler, Butte Co SAR

 

[Blu-meanie]

We use those collars with the spikes, it really saves your back, especially with a 185# Mastiff. They love to go for walks and respond well with these collars. As to the running off thing, try baiting them with boiled chicken livers or some other goodie. Start with them on a leash and turn them loose where you don't have to look like a fool trying to catch your dog. All the breeds we have had respond well to the bait technique... .

 

[The patriot]

Maybe try having your wife giving the dog commands while youre there, then gradually have you there less and less.

I've been really lucky with my 3 dogs.

The Chihuahua was a real pain in the butt to house train, but the mutt and german shepherd already knew what to do.

All our dogs listen to both my wife and I. That was never a problem.

Good luck.

Eric

 

[AfterBurner]

Have your wife bite Scupper's ear!

I've herad it works... :-laf

 

[Sled Dog]

Get you pup a buddie. They can wear each other out playing. It will be easier for you to set up the pecking order.

 

[fox]

All good ideas!!

Scupper does think it is a game to run from us.

We have used a pinch collar, which she takes off at will. She can roll it over so it is upside down then it slides off.

Bit her ear is great.

A buddie pup is considered but it may make scupper think she is higher on the chain?



Since Saturday, we have kept tight control on where and what she is doing. Making her do things like tricks, all without a treat.

It may be working, time will tell.

Thanks to all.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Have your wife bite Scupper's ear!

I've herad it works... :-laf

It worked on my roommates Malamute..... Dog was as nice as could be after I bit his ear.



Try using a Halti/Gentle Leader - kind of like a bridle for a horse - as they provide for very good control over the dog. Canine Companions for Independance and Guide Dogs for the Blind use them on their dogs.



Brian

 

[fox]

We have/had a Gentle leader. It worked well until my wife forgot to take it off of Scupper to leave her in the garage for 5 minutes. Returned and Scupper had supper with the gentle leader. Chewed into several pieces. She is very good at removing things.

WHY do they make these things out of anything a dog can chew threw?

Scupper did the same with a training collar. The kind with a tone option before the correction.



Oh the fun of raising a pup!!!!

 

[Alan Reagan]

When Scupper gets loose and your wife chases her, it is a fun game for the dog. The game needs to end - walk away and ignore the dog (hopefully you have a fenced yard to do this in). Labs need a lot of exercise, and after they get enough they usually calm down (somewhat) and are easier to work with.

My buddy's dog is a female yellow lab and she was the same way as a pup - she loved getting people to chase her when she was let loose. Ignoring her until she came over to get attention then putting her in her kennel without giving her attention put a quick stop to her not listening.

Good advice. Our border collie was the same way. If I stopped chasing and walked away, she would do a couple of close passes to get our attention. If I continue to chase her, she thinks it's a great game.



Also, keep some training treats with you when you take her out. Go through some drills (sit, down, stay) and reward the pup when she responds. I don't know how old she is, but Pet Smart has a nice training program that lasts six weeks and costs $60. I put my 11 year old and the puppy in the program and was surprised at how much they learned. At 11 months, the BC is still a work in progress, but she is off the leash now for up to two hours before she gets that "look" and starts to walk away. At that point we leash her and show who's the boss.



Another thing is the new shock collars. I normally wouldn't be an advocate of those, but I saw one used on an unrully lab recently that sounds like yours. When the owner hit the button, the dog stopped the nonsense and returned to the owners side.

 

[ACoyle]

We have two male labs "Bear" and "Liam". Labs can get rambunctious. We tried the gentle leader. "Bear" just laid on his back and raked his throat with his paws. "Liam" just sat and refused to do anything. I did a bit of Internet research and found neck damage with them. Makes some sense as you are pulling on a long lever "The neck" at an angle. We tried the prong collars and have had good success. Did a bit more research and didn't find any health problems.

Next look at food. Labs cannot process high proten food. You should have no more than 21% proten. If it is higher they tend to become hyper active. I suggest "Califirnia Natural" as it is completely holistic. Read up on dog food, it's scarry what most of it is made of. The coats are superb and shiney.

Next is excercise. Labs need at least an hour a day of hard excercise. If they don't get it they get bored. Then they "self entertain". This is usually not good.

Finally attention. This is mostly what it is all about. Labs are very high on Dog IQ scales and want your attention and interaction. If they don't get it they will do things that will get it. They don't necessarily see any kind of attention as bad attention. Male labs want to be with you at all times. Females will be satisfied to know that you are nearby.

Remember, they are living beings and have feelings too. They have no life beyond you. You have the people at work and spouse and family. They have none of that. They respond well to regimentation and firm, but, affectionate control.



Just my $. 02 - The more I know about people the more I love my dog. - AC

 

[KBennett]

Remote Shock Collar!

Based on the experience of my sister and brother-in-law, I would recommend a shock collar. Their Yellow Lab mix was completely out of control and would scale their 6 foot wood fence to leave the yard. After they zapped her a few times all they have to do is press the beeper button on the remote and the dog immediately submits.

 

[fox]

I want up date this topic.



After Scupper got loose AGAIN , we sat down and talked.

She pulled and broke a gentle leader, and ran , wife was wiggin out.

She- wife- went to the vet the next day and got advice. Vet refers to this dog as a 'wild woman'.

We were told about a lab rescue 70 miles away.

After discussing things the receptionist said to call this local lady who trains and boards dogs.

We did and met with her. It was less that 10 minutes--- 10 minutes--- and she had COMPLETE control of this dog.

She said, the dog wasn't the problem, it was us. That we have a good dog she just hadsn't been trained.

Now we can go for walks, she heals, sits, stays' etc.

Everyone who knew Scupper before and after cannot believe this!!!

AWESOME. We did leave scupper for 10 days of training. And need to go back to classes so WE can be trained.

She has never seen the show, 'dog whisperer', but is as good. Very similar training. 95% of the time it is the 2 legged animal she said. Completely right.

Cost: $250.

 

[TowPro]

Probably 11 years ago I talked to one of the engineers at Radio Fence about building these collers. I had looked everywhere but nobody sold them. Radio Fence said "I don't think there is a need for them". Now they sell them



Anyway, I use there border system around 1 acre for a black lab and golden retreiver. the lab was gun broken when she was young, but somebody must have messed with her when I was not home, now if she hears a gun shot she runs through the fence even with the stubern dog collor turned all the way up. (out where I live guns are shot all the time) I have walked that fence with her 1000's of times, but at the sound of a gun shot she just walks up to where she knows the border is, then puts her head down and runs like hell through the 10' shock border. She will Yelp when she hits it (I know she feels it) but she just goes through it. Now she is on a chain.



The golden has not had batteries in his coller for the last couple years, he will not cross that line if he had to To take him out of the fence I need to remove the collor and put a bag over his head.

Another thing is the new shock collars. I normally wouldn't be an advocate of those, but I saw one used on an unrully lab recently that sounds like yours. When the owner hit the button, the dog stopped the nonsense and returned to the owners side.

 

[hammersley]

I've never hit my dogs, or used any sort of "correction devices" except for short lead ropes and clickers. Grasping their collar and getting in their face with a quiet yet aggressive voice tone is similar to your high school football coach grabbing you by the facemask to get his point across. [/QUOTE]



Great quote and 100% CORRECT!



This guy is great... ...



http://www.dogchannel.com/dog/experts/cesar/default.aspx?Google_Cesar



watch his show on http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/glossary.html



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