Transfer pump failure??

[TX Gooseneck]

I made a trip up to Montana this week. Everything was running fine until I hit Sheriden, WY and my truck began to struggle pulling grades (I had a single gooseneck trailer on board - 6500# for the trailer) Typically I run in 6th gear and drop down to 5th when required. Started to slow going up a hill, pull down into 5th and the power disappears. I pull the hill slowly (felt like I was in my 93 ). I got to Helena and went by Summit Dodge. Explain the situation - Truck runs strong, pulls hard to 2400-2700 rpm then rolls over. They reflash the computer saying there was an update for stumbling. The truck ran very stout after that and my mileage shot through the roof (for a 600, I was seeing 19. 4 on the overhead and 20. 4 hand calculated!)



I drove for 12 hours, dropped down through Yellowstone and head south towards Rawlins. As soon as I hit the interstate I begin to have the same problems. Any WOT over 2500 results in nothing. I went by the Dodge Dealership in Laramie - Avoid these guys at all cost. Based on the thought process of the service manager I would be horrified to leave anything in his hands.



I pulled over, popped both negative battery cables off, cranked the key (as I was told this clears the memory of the computer) hook back up the battery and take off. Problem solved. Truck once again runs very strong, mileage is way up (I went from Laramie to Amarillo on 1 fuel up - avg mpg 18. 6 @ 75-80mph). I get on the other side of Amarillo and SAME situation - right at 12 hours of drive time. No power to pull hills. Rinse wash repeat. I unhook the batteries and go through everything once again. Pull out and the truck once again is back up to snuff. Park for the night, hit it again at 6 this morning and wheel home. Approx. 150 miles from home, same problem

I call up Dodge and they mention the transfer pump, possibly an injection pump. The mileage is still up in the truck, no power after 2500rpm and it begins to smoke like a 12v past 2500rpm.



Anybody had similar experience? I thought about everything from wastegate sticking to fuel filter. Summit Dodge ran test on everything, flow was good, pressure was up, no block in the fuel lines.





I just hit 70,000 miles if that helps.

 

[John - K5AWO]

I don't see any mention of guages?



You need at the very minimum a fuel pressure guage so that you don't starve the VP44 injection pump of fuel.



Sounds like low fuel pressure. Possibly the pump doesn't like heat soak, or you are pulling a vacuum in the fuel tank with same result- no fuel or low fuel pressure.

 

[travisch]

Look at your paperwork from Summit Dodge and see what the flash number was for the stumbling TSB they performed on the truck.

What was your previous milage?

 

[TX Gooseneck]

You are correct, I don't have any guages. Low fuel pressure was my initial thought, but dodge checked that and said pressure was good.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Previous mileage was between high 14's and mid 16's depending on speed.

 

[travisch]

The paperwork you received from the dealership should have the TSB number on it or the flash number. If not it should be on a tag in the engine compartment.

With this I should be able to look up what exactly it did.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Travis,



I took it to the dealer I bought the truck from today. They let me pimp a Magnum R/T Hemi (may have to buy one of these when $$ permits!) for the afternoon I meant to get the code from him - but here is the situation. The computer initially accepts the code and then attempts to relearn old habits. It's carrying around 1. 5 volts at the pump and above 2400rpm it drops to . 5v I have to bring the truck in Monday so he can get more into it and see if it's the computer, transfer pump or injectors. The tech is thinking that the dealership didn't enter the VIN # correctly upon reflash. It's pulling a p6030 code, I believe, I'll verify just to make sure, but it's showing a no-vin error.



I yanked the cables again at the dealership and drove home.

 

[Fireman]

Did anyone try changing the fuel filter?



Fireman

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Fireman,



It will be changed on Monday, but it's not the problem according to DC. The pressure on the pump is where it needs to be.

 

[Pit Bull]

I don't see any mention of guages?



You need at the very minimum a fuel pressure guage so that you don't starve the VP44 injection pump of fuel.



Sounds like low fuel pressure. Possibly the pump doesn't like heat soak, or you are pulling a vacuum in the fuel tank with same result- no fuel or low fuel pressure.

Since this is posted in the 3rd Generation Forum I assume he is talking about a new "600" based on the attached quote. "The truck ran very stout after that and my mileage shot through the roof (for a 600, I was seeing 19. 4 on the overhead and 20. 4 hand calculated!)" But it does sound like what you mentioned if it is a 2nd Gen truck.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

It's a 3rd gen 2004. 5 325/600 3500 6-speed quad if that needs to be clarified.

 

[CoastyAV8R]

If you could find the reflash number, I could sure use it as my truck has a erratic idle when you first put it in neutral when going down the road and they said the "new" reflash would fix it. They didn't know the reflash number to put it in there so after 4 hours of sitting around with no results, I told them to just give me my truck back and i'll deal with it later.



What happens or takes 12 hours for something to act up? I venture to guess you refuel before you hit the 12 hour mark or I might say the fuel tank isn't venting and your vapor locking. A fuel filter most likely wouldn't do it as it seems to hit around the 12 hour mark and then goes away when you disconnect the battery. I work with electronics on aircraft and I would say it's an electrical demon of some sort either in the computer or wiring as when computers heat up, all sorts of weird stuff happens. When mechanical stuff goes bad, it usually doesn't fix itself. Electrical stuff will cool down and start working again or you can erase it's memory by removing the electrical power. Let us know what it turns out to be...

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Alright, the reflash is listed as part number 2032525AG



I'm beating my head here. The dealership said they have no clue what is going on and what is causing. DC is also at a loss. They are running several different test to determine the issue. What the cummins tech told me is that the computer took the reflash and stored it, but as I drive it is unlearning the reflash and then creates a parameter that spikes the voltage of the pump. IT'S ALIVE! The computer also has issues duplicating the problem 100% of the time.

 

[BIG BOB]

I don't see any mention of guages?



You need at the very minimum a fuel pressure guage so that you don't starve the VP44 injection pump of fuel.



Sounds like low fuel pressure. Possibly the pump doesn't like heat soak, or you are pulling a vacuum in the fuel tank with same result- no fuel or low fuel pressure.

John,



Sorry the 3rd Gen's don't have a VP44 pump! The have a CP-3 high pressure pump designed for the common-rail injection system.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

From what I understand, the 3rd gen trucks don't technically have an injection pump. The transfer pump runs at such high psi there is supposedly no need for one.

 

[Bob4x4]

The transfer pump puts out approx. 7-9 psi to the injection pump where it is boosted again before moving into the high pressure side where a 600 will idle at about 7-7. 5kpsi rail pressure.



Bob

 

[TX Gooseneck]

All of the headaches and it appears it was a bad thermostat. They replaced it and apparently the truck is doing ok. My dad has it right now on a trip to the west cost. He rolled the scales at 38,6xxlbs. Pulled a grade on 40 going into ABLQ, NM at EIGHT mph!!! Glad it wasn't me on this trip!