transmission lets go....

[BFC]

Originally posted by John_P

While it is true that Eric (Stack'd-n'Jack'd) had problems

with his ATS transmission at Atlanta; I recall that a Dodge

CTD with a DTT transmission broke at the Muncie drag races.



-----------

John_P

:-{} :-{}





CUMINNTSTRKN posted.



guys



we all break parts, that's what us sponsered guys are here for. the ? will be awnsered when erics new transmission comes, to see if they fixed the problem. we break parts so that the avg user won't.



Thanks you Jim, finally someone with common sense and a view of the big picture. He's sponsored and doesn't even plug his transmission. I think we could all learn something from Jim about sharing the info and keeping it relevant to the thread.



I'll do it for ya Jim, he runs a BD power transmission.



He's choice of transmission ain't mine and doesn't have to be. Chill out boys, there just trucks it's all good.



Glenn

 

[Strick-9]

Stakeman,



Let's look at this problem from a mathematical standpoint.



All of the current transmission vendors use the same size piston and seals for the forward clutch piston. They are all bound by the same laws of physics.



The force holding the clutch pack together depends on the amount of transmission line pressure and the size of the piston. Since everyone uses the same size piston, all that really matters is how much line pressure there is.



ATS openly states that they use lower line pressure than all the other transmission vendors. That makes their trannies most likely to slip. A clutch only becomes welded together after it has slipped so much that there is no friction material left. Up until that point, the average driver cannot tell any damage is being done. But it sure shifts smooth.



-Chris

 

[fox]

Eric, I am sorry to hear that you broke it.

And thank you for telling us and for doing the R+D.

The bottom line is that a mechanical limit has been reached.

Shifting with the converter locked is chalenging on parts.

Auto's normally shift in fluid coupling so the converter absorbs the shock load. So, when locked and shifted something must give/absorb the hit. If the converter can't, the motor won't, and the tires refuse, the hard parts will break or the clutches slip.

Over time your clutches slipped until the day came that they got too hot.

I too have welded them together. years ago before I even heard of the current trans companies that are popular here.

BTW, raising the line pressure will ( In my opinion) break the shafts.

I feel the 3rd gear clutches are the weak link at the level that you are at.

Long winded and I can't believe I know this much, and I know nothing compared to the experts!!

fox

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

He was power braking the transmission when it broke not shifting it. What probably caused it was the fact that the converter was stalled and applying more force than the clutches could hold at that pressure. Since he does it all the time and this type of slippage is hard to detect, then you should expect that it will happen eventually.



He ONLY makes 600+hp out of his undervalved, slushbox having truck



When was the last time you clocked off a 12. 5 on #2 only?????



Racers in all types of racing fry trannies on a daily basis. Why shouldn't we?



Later,

Mark

 

[fox]

Mark, I'm not a racer and meant no chalenge to the issue.

Yes , stalling a converter is hard on things, but I differ to say that shifting at full throttle and locked does harm the clutches too.

BTW I'm lucky to see 350hp from my truck and won't play the games other are after. It is fun to watch from the sidelines!!

fox

 

[bigkavr]

The trans. that broke at the Muncie drags was mine. :{ Yes, it was DTT through out, EXCEPT for the stock input shaft and front hub.

Yep. You guessed it! The front hub cracked in half and the input shaft ripped the splines right off it. (4 wheel launches with 25 pounds of boost will do that!!):--)

I still cannot say enough good about the folks that helped me out that day, including (but definately not limited to) DTT, Dave's

Diesel and Mass Diesel. Bill K. even pulled a billet front hub and shaft out of his pocket to put in my truck Life is good when there's diesel people involved!!!

 

[StakeMan]

Originally posted by Strick-9

Stakeman,



Let's look at this problem from a mathematical standpoint.



All of the current transmission vendors use the same size piston and seals for the forward clutch piston. They are all bound by the same laws of physics.



The force holding the clutch pack together depends on the amount of transmission line pressure and the size of the piston. Since everyone uses the same size piston, all that really matters is how much line pressure there is.



ATS openly states that they use lower line pressure than all the other transmission vendors. That makes their trannies most likely to slip. A clutch only becomes welded together after it has slipped so much that there is no friction material left. Up until that point, the average driver cannot tell any damage is being done. But it sure shifts smooth.



-Chris

I think the number of clutches in that pack might have something to do with it? I may be wrong here, but it was my understanding that he had the stock number of clutches and they wanted to see how far they could push the stock parts. Eric and Clint could answer that question better.



IMO, 120+ 30psi launches on factory clutches with 600+ hp is damn good.

 

[JConley]

Based on how Erics transmission stood up to the abuse, I feel confident that my transmission should last a long time with 1/3rd the HP, and normal driving.



Why do I have the feeling that if I have any problems in any way with this transmission, I will see this post again.

 

[DHRA]

I guess it comes down to if you would rather have low line pressures so the clutches slip or if you want high ones and break shafts. I have that truck spooled to 2100-2200 RPM's for about 15 seconds every run. So based on 120 launches that would be a half hour of slipping the clutches. Not to mention the many fluid coupling runs around town.

Most important to me is that I'm happy with the success of this transmission. We will have to see what great things ATS does different to help the situation. I know we are going to be trying out different things.

Thanks to all for your kind words. I'm done racing for the season so we will have a few time trials to see what the new transmission has and then it's off to put more #2 power in my baby!

Oh, Chris I have been to 5 races and didn't get to race two of them. I made it through time trials at Muncie,after just putting the engine back together two days before. Just a few slippery boots. I finished first at Quaker City. I was brand new to the transmission at Maryland. I just flat out screwed up at the Chrysler Classic. The truck held together great this year at the races.

 

[ob1kobi]

Eric,



Sorry to hear about your transmission. I have been there, and it's not fun.



Ted

 

[bigkavr]

Eric,

Bummer about your trans. :{ :{ I'm VERY impressed that your trans. lasted as long as it did. This is NOT a dig on ATS, just the opposite. Any trans. that can take what you and your truck dish out has got to be a damn good one. Please keep us less fueled ones informed on your progress. Keep up the great work!

Brian

 

[DHRA]

Thanks Brian. I will keep you informed.

Ted, you are the first person I thought about. I almost called you to tell you it was my turn to do some welding.

Well, called Clint today, new transmission was shipped yesterday. Lot's of new goodies in the transmission. I asked him if I needed to know anything about it and he said "yea, go break it!" Gotta love that! Also, if you all have any questions about the transmission 800-949-6002.

 

[rrausch]

Eric, you are amazing, I would love to see your truck run sometime. It must be awesome. I loved Clint's comment,"yea... go break it!"!





Stefan Kondolay, here is the information I promised.



I mis-spoke... somewhat.



The numbers & facts which follow are from Don Ramer and Ranee Cannon.

ATS does indeed build several hundred Drag Racing Stall Converters every

year under the name "Performance Torque Converter". ATS builds racing

T. C. 's for Alcohol & Gassers, as well as all the popular H. H. P. street

applications like Hot Firebirds, Corvettes, Camaro's, Trans-Ams, etc. They also

build a lock-up Triple Disk for the Ford Lightening.



Back in the 1990's they were building 180-200 T. C. 's per week, for shops all over Colorado and the 4-state area. About 22-28% of their business has been racing T. C. 's. When they concieved of the Triple-Lok, they changed their business plan and decided to concentrate on Diesels, especially the Mighty Dodge Cummins, and get out of the wholesale TC business.



They ARE the biggest Racing T. C. builder in the state of Colorado, and

probably in that 4-state area, but not the biggest in the west. I was wrong about that. And they have been in business over 11 years, not 10 as I stated.



They also do RTD busses and Heavy Equiptment. They just did a trans for a 1962 era Heavy Crane, for a Denver Const. business that nobody could even get the parts for anymore. ATS fabricated the Allison parts needed for the crane in their own Machine Shop. They do Front End Loader trans, like Komatsu and also heavy Earth-movers.



These guys are not amateurs, they are smart, dedicated, & tough, just like

their ATS Stage IV trans!

 

[ob1kobi]

Eric







Ted

 

[John_P]

Robert:



Thanks for the follow-up!!!



---------

John_P

 

[SlyBones]

Originally posted by rrausch

Back in the 1990's they were building 180-200 T. C. 's per week, for shops all over Colorado and the 4-state area. About 22-28% of their business has been racing T. C. 's. When they concieved of the Triple-Lok, they changed their business plan and decided to concentrate on Diesels, especially the Mighty Dodge Cummins, and get out of the wholesale TC business.

Just a curiosity, it sounds like these 180-200 TC's per week were OEM replacement TC's for the wholesale market. I assume that all the non-dealer transmission shops ( Joes Transmissions ) out in the world replacing TC's in the open market do not make their own. They buy them, from places like ATS.

 

[rrausch]

The information I got, I got from 2 phone calls, and 2 e-mails.

I understood Ranee and Don to say that,. yes Joe's Transmissions all over Colorado and other nearby states did use ATS's TC's until ATS got out of the wholesale market.

The 180-200 T. C. 's per week included racing T. C. 's.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

rrausch I thought "Performance Torque Converter" PTC, was out of Halleyville, Alabama just south of Decatur. I've heard of the company and have seen there converters used in drag racing, good stuff! Do I have this mixed up?



Jim

 

[rrausch]

Well, I guess there is more than one company selling T. C. 's under the name Performance Torque Converter. There are 285 hits on Google using that name.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

rrausch , thanks for the update , here on the east coast i had never heard of ATS before the TDR .



as far as slipping clutches or breaking shafts , both require pulling the trans to repair , i'd rather do neither .