Transmission modification

[Strick-9]

I've been into my transmission more times than I care to remember. I don't think I'll ever fully understand the internals of the valve body, but I'm trying. I have a question for some of the transmission gurus out there.

What is the reasoning behind grinding down (shortenting) the shaft on the TV valve. I was trying to figure out the TV circuit today. The only reason the shaft would need to be shorter is if the kickdown valve completely compressed the TV spring and the two valves touched. What are the tradeoffs and side effects of shortening this shaft.

Thank you!

-Chris

'94 2500 4x4 auto w/ DTT TC and VB, TC saver, Diamond B 370's, gov spring kit, modified AFC spring kit, high flow delivery valves and other pump modifications, Jardine 4" exhaust, stock turbo and intake.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Chris,

With a Dodge Ram Diesel the main purpose of shortening that shaft is to limit throttle pressure. By increasing throttle pressure you delay upshifts, the longer the stem, the greater the pressure under full throttle.

95 and earlier Dodge rams use a mechanial governor, which allows for upshifts. As you increase your throttle pressures your shift points become later and later. The highest i've ever gone with line pressure on the 95 and earlier models is 160psi wide open throttle. It is a tricky process which requires considerable modifications to the governor valves themselves.

The heavier the governor weight the earlier the upshifts.

Chris trying to type this is very difficult , how about a trip to Canada, you come up here i will show you how to do your setup , i understand summer break is comming up, the easiest way to say it i guess is that you are looking for the perfect balance of throttle pressure vs governor pressure.

Chris we are doing Nowels truck next week, i can send you a duplicate vb to the one we put in Nowels truck, but you will have to MAKE SUTE the set up you do is identical to the one we use. I will work with you if you want to try it. Email me your #, and i will call you.


Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Timinator]

I nominate Bill for sainthood. When my transmissions dies, I'll be getting a TC and VB from you, Bill. Then it'll really be time to bomb!

 

[Joe G.]

Tim,

Bill sells complete transmissions. If your transmission dies that's the way to go. Get the complete unit all tested and ready to go.

------------------
Joe George
Eureka, CA

'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,3. 54,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,DTT TC/VB,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver

 

[Strick-9]

Bill, thanks for the reply. I hope Shanti didn't have to type all that for you. #ad
(Sorry Shanti!) I thought about calling and asking you, but I thought I would put this on the website for everyone to learn.

I understand the relationship between throttle pressure and shift points. Maybe I'm being too picky or asking a transmission guy to reveal all his hard earned secrets, but I want the lightning fast downshifts of a . 046" TV spring with a tight TV cable, but not the 3500 rpm shift point that goes with it. I can adjust my TV cable for proper shift points or even install a smaller TV spring, but with either of these I lose downshift quickness.

My latest strategy was to take a spare . 046" TV spring and grind away at both ends to shorten it a little. My 2-3 shift point is now at 3200, but I can already feel that I've lost a little downshift quickness.
I will live with the high shift point to keep the downshift responsiveness for now.
It seems that any spring adjustment (i. e. TV cable adjustment, spring change in wire diameter or length) just trades downshift speed for WOT shift point. There has to be a way to get both.

I guess most people to use the stiff TV springs for downshift quickness, then use heavier governor weights to simulate higher speeds. That makes sense, but would be very time consuming. Governor weights are not nearly as easy to access for adjustments as are valvebody springs.

I think a shock absorber between the kickdown valve and the TV valve would allow instant downshifts when stomping the go pedal (much like a long shaft), but would then give proper WOT shift points because it would shrink in size and allow the TV spring to take over as throttle pressure slowly moved the throttle valve.

Any other transmission guys out there? inarush76?

-Chris

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Chris,

it is truly a pitty that guys like you never really think of getting into the transmission industry. Of all the young people i have met, you truly are my favourite, your refusal to give up and never settle for almost good enough. Are you sure you dont want to come up to Canada, i assure you it would be my pleasure to work with you.

Now, back to business,

Since you dont want to play with the governor circuit, the route you are choosing to take is far more challenging. Since increasing the governor pressure is not an option, you need to manipulate the shift springs.

Example, if you want to increase the speed at which the 2-3 shift happens, you will have to weaken the 2-3 shift springs.

Now remember Chris , for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

If you have earlier wide open shift points from 2-3 you will also have earlier 2-3 shifts under light throttle.
This will allow higher line pressures and still maintain wide open shift points.

Remember Chris, you can use the 43thou tv spring and shim it .

You can also drill out the governor valves, and insert springs, to assist the governor valves, allowing you higher line pressure.


Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Strick-9]

Bill,

I've been thinking all day on how to respond to this.

First off, Thank you. The information you posted is exactly what I wanted to know. I think that will help people for years to come.

More importantly though. Everyone knows how much of a perfectionist you are. Don't get me wrong, your TC's are great, but they don't hold a candle to the man standing behind them. Your popularity comes from your service and your unbelievable efforts to never give up and never let someone leave your shop with a transmission 'almost good enough. '

So for you to say that about me..... wow. That's the greatest compliment I've ever received. Thank you!

I graduate in 27 days. Driving to Canada and begging for a job is still an option. Don't count me out just yet! #ad


-Chris

 

[inarush76]

Chris, while I don't know how much if any I could add to what Bill has said on your trans, I agree that I'm impressed with your drive and curiosity and pursuit of an answer. If I can help, You know I will. A chance to learn the trade from Bill would be a great oppurtunity. I wish I could find the time to go visit Bill and pick his brain some more. Just as a teaser, I have built a couple of trans with an added clutch in the direct clutch while retaining the waved snap ring to add capacity while not aggravating overlap, especially under light throttle 2-3. Will watch to see how they work out in the long run. Keep on keeping on. #ad


James Northum--DTT dealer and installer.

 

[RWorth]

Strick-9,WOW what a thrill to be asked, what a priviledge it would be to work and learn from guys like Bill and James. Not everyone is asked to learn from the best because usually the best are not always willing to share what they know and what they have learned from the past. I like what Bill says about not knowing all there is to know and that he learns more everyday. If a person knew all there is in the business thy work in they would never be able to stay ahead of those who are learning.
Congrates to the invite from Bill.
Have a great Easter day.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Chris,

You would not have to come up to Canada and beg me for a job, remember we our parent company is American.

See what i was thinking is that with Piers quitting BD at the end of the month to open his own shop,this may present a really good opportunity for you to learn how to tweak that 12 valve of yours as well as the transmission.

Im glad to see the 370's have come out of your truck, if you want a good price on
DD injectors, call me i might be able to put you on an R&D program we have in progress.

Back to the transmission,increasing pressures to prevent slippage, when using this type of proceedure you are walking a very fine line.

Too much pressure can cause parts breakage, too little presssure will cause slippage.

Dont forget about cross leaks within the vb, Chrysler uses no vb gaskets.

The next step is bind up during shifts.
The second gear band must release in order for the 3rd gear clutch pac to apply on the 2-3 shift, and vise -versa.

Increasing the clutch pac capacity is an old drag racing trick that works quite well if the set up is done properly.

You can use the front drum out of the 99 Dodge ram that uses the thicker steels with the earlier thinner steels from the 96 and earlier with the frictions from the 97 and later, giving you a 5 clutch pac instead of a 4 clutch pac.

Dont forget about the bind up.
You will have too speed up the release of the second gear band to compensate.

Anything in the transmission industry is possible if you just think about what you are doing and compensate for all the offsets.
Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction.

Everytime you reduce the amount of slippage within the transmission, the risk of broken hard parts increases.

ie) input shafts, output shafts , planetary gears,

Remember the old power glide, the old slush bucket that at one time could only handle 160hp, now they are handling up to 2000 hp and living. All it took was an after market case, after market input shaft, aftermarket drum, aftermarket hub, aftermarket planetary gear, aftermarket tail housing, aftermarket pan, oh yea! aftermarket vb, whats left of the original transmission , the nuts and bolts of course, and most guys change them too.
And the 2 washers that sit in the drum.

Anything is possible Chris.
Time, patience and money is usually what it takes, if you've got the time and i know you've got the patience, you dont need the money, i will teach you the rest.

Let me know.

I want to remind you of one thing, i dont know everything,there is always room to learn,i learn every day from this membership's experiences.

PS , as you may have noticed , Shanti's back in town.

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology.