Transmission Removal, Preparations for

[ABGordon]

Hi,



I am gathering some parts in advance of removing my transmission in order to get at the rear main seal. I have the Cummins RR seal kit, and I have ordered the Piers SFI certified flexplate. I am going to call Cummins and order the cam plug and seal. (Not really clear on the requirement to beat on, hammer, or dimple the cam plug). I'm also going to replace all (5?) u-joints.



Are there any special tools needed to do this job? What about a transmission jack? Can I get away with buying an attachment that bolts onto my floorjack?



I don't really trust my automatic transmission, but I see from DTT's website that it is generally recommended NOT to replace the valve body and/or torque converter, but instead to drive the transmission into the ground and then purchase a new A/T. I'm tempted to replace the valve body if only so I don't have the leak back problem anymore. I guess I can do that anytime, but would appreciate any thoughts on trans work since it wil be out on the floor. I guess there is a front transmission seal that I will also want to replace.



Any advice is really appreciated, esp. any tips from those who have been there and done that... .



Thanks,

Alan

 

[Greenleaf]

I'm gonna be doing the EXACT same thing. So am looking for the replies... ... ...



Anyone. .



GL

 

[TKingsbury]

Since you don't have a transmission jack, I'd take the t-case off and then remove the trans. That way you wont have a giant heavy thing to deal with and you can replace the gasket between the two. When you do the front seal on the trans, make sure there aren't any sharp edges on the convertor hub. The edges of the pump drive notches can get hammered a little and get a ridge. If there is a sharp edge, you will cut the seal when you install the convertor and you will have to pull it all again. And my final peice of automatic advice, go to the dealer and buy their reuseable plastic trans pan gasket. Trust me on this, you'll like it.

Travis. .

 

[ABGordon]

Travis, do I need a special tool to install the frt seal in the auto trans?



Also, when I changed the clutch in my old 1971 911T I dropped the engine and transmission as a unit and then unbolted them. Not sure what you mean by remove the t-case. That is, I really can't picture it in my head. Maybe a couple of beers will clear this up for me. Otherwise I will probably need you to draw me a (mental) picture.



Thanks for the reply!

Alan

 

[Philip]

The transfer case is held onto the trans with around 6 bolts spaced evenly around the trans adapter. When you get under the truck you will see them. They go right into the transfer case.



I would pull the transfer case. I have seen a 727 with a 203 flip a trans jack on its side. Our cases hang off sided and it is very hard to hit the balance point to stop a flip over. For safety I always pull the transfer case now. A 203 transfer case weights around 160#'s. Your 205 will be very close to that.



On the jack adapter. You will need the truck high in the air. My trans jack adapter is around 8" tall not including the floor jack lowered height. With a standard 3 ton floor jack and jackstands I can't get anything up high enough to roll the trans out with it on the adapter. I would recommend finding a low trans jack if you can. Check you local rental shop and see if they have one.



If your trans is in good shape a shift kit won't hurt it. The big issue is once that pan is off. Keep everything clean enough to eat off of. Auto trans valve bodies do not like dirt in them. Do not roll it up side down till you have the pan off. This way you do not dump the trash in the bottom of the pan into the valve body on disasembly.

 

[ABGordon]

Phillip,



I will look for the Low-Jack. Thanks for spelling T-C-A-S-E for me.



Alan

 

[boatpuller]

Unless the front seal on the transmission is leaking I wouldn't pull the transmission all the way out, Idid mine without a transmission jack, used a bottle jack to hold the engine from tilting and my floor jack under the transmission or transfer case, can't remember which end is heavy. Then you can just slide thransmission and transfer case back as far as it will go(about 5") till it hits the crossmember, I don't think you could get the torque converter out but pulling the flex plate and the adapter plate to get at the rear main seal can be done and you don't have to disconnect everything. The seal is in an aluminum mount that unbolts so you can drive the seal in out of the truck and then just bolt it back in.

If you've never taken one of these apart the strangest thing to me is that you don't undo the bolts that connect the torque converter and flexplate from the bottom through the inspection cover, you get to the bolts through a hole in the adapter plate behind the turbo, there is a cover over the hole and then you have to rotate the engine to get to the bolts.



Good luck,

Caleb

 

[ABGordon]

Thanks for the advice Caleb. I understand that by using your method I can replace both the rear main seal and the flex plate without having to remove the automatic transmission. Can I also replace the cam plug using this method?

 

[MrWinkey]

Buy a transmission jack..... put your truck on jack stands and then dont worry about it. I left my transmission and T-case bolted to the cross member hooked my transmission jack to that and then slid them back and out from under the truck. I used some extra tie down ratchet straps to keep everything on the level. Since your only removing your transmission or backing it up I would recomend this method the best.



The ease of use for that transmission jack made it worth the extra 100 dollars. Plus it works great as a snowmobile jack.

 

[KeithTaylor]

I just got done doing an R & R on my Getrag & transfer - I went to a equipment rental outfit and rented a BIG trans jack - 18 wheeler type. It was about 6 feet long and took two of us to load in the truck, but for a $35. 00 rental charge, I wouldn't try it without one. If that trans/transfer assembly gets away from you while you're under the truck, getting hurt is a very real possibility. Just my . 02 cents . . .

Keith

 

[TKingsbury]

Travis, do I need a special tool to install the frt seal in the auto trans?



Also, when I changed the clutch in my old 1971 911T I dropped the engine and transmission as a unit and then unbolted them. Not sure what you mean by remove the t-case. That is, I really can't picture it in my head. Maybe a couple of beers will clear this up for me. Otherwise I will probably need you to draw me a (mental) picture.



Thanks for the reply!

Alan

Sorry for losing you, looks like it's cleared up though. If you don't have any leaks on your trans or transfer case, sliding it back is probably a good option. If you need to re-seal some stuff, take em out. Oh ya, don't overlook my advise on the mopar trans pan gasket. It is plastic with a molded on silicone sealing rib. You can't over-tighten it and they seal great. Also, if you end up doing the front seal on the trans, no special tool is required (I just use a hammer and a large drift punch).

Travis. .

 

[CBottomley]

cam plug & seal

I tried finding this in my big dodge repair manual. I'd like more information about this? I have a rear main seal leak myself due to improper installtion by Builders Transmission located in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. I going to do this job myself! I will get the flexplate from PDR. What comes in the Rear Main Seal Kit from Cummins? Seal ring tool and alignment tool? thanks for any information.



1991 250 CUMMINS DIESEL DODGE TRUCK LE 3/4 TON. EARLY YEAR. NON-INTERCOOLED. A/C, REBUILT TORQUE CONVERTER BY HUGHES PERFORMANCE. GRAVES PRO SHOP (SAN ANTONIO) TX REBUILT HEAVY-DUTY 727 TORQUE FLITE 3-SPEED AUTOMATIC FOR TOWING WITH A BRAND NEW GEAR VENDOR. WOW! 3. 07 DIFF. RANCHO ADJUSTABLE REAR, BILSTEIN FRONT, K&N FILTER, AUX-COMBO TOOLBOX WITH 40 DIESEL GALLON TANK. THIS TRUCK HAS A GRAND TOTAL OF 85,000 MILES.

 

[boatpuller]

I didn't do the cam plug, didn't even hear that it could be a problem til after I did my rear seal, my rear seal was damaged when my original flexplate broke, when it was replaced they didn't notice that the seal was damaged, it started leaking a little while later then all the sudden it was leaking bad, I just replaced the rear seal and put another new latemodel factory flexplate in at that time, that's why I have the heavyduty flexplate in the truck as a spare.



The Cummins rear seal kit comes with the seal, a guide to get the seal over the end of the crank and a tool for driving the seal in to the correct depth.



The other thing to be aware of is that the seal has a nylon face, it must be installed dry, like not even the grease from a fingerprint, use brakekleen or carb cleaner to make sure that the end of the crank is completely dry, if not the seal will leak, it needs to be dry so it can break in to the crank. This goes against any prior seal instruction for anything else I've ever done but it works, it's been a year or two since I replaced mine and it hasn't leaked.



When I did the seal it was on a sheet of plywood out in the dirt in front of my garage because when it went out I was in the middle of an addition to the garage. That's why I didn't want to mess with taking the transmission all the way out, you don't even have to disconnect the front driveline.



Caleb

 

[Don in Missouri]

I bought one of that transmission jack adapters for the floor jack. Got it from Harbor Freight for around $50. I took some measurements to get the truck the right height on the jack stands, so the jack would reach the transmission and still be able to roll out from under the truck. I made some additional brackets to bolt tehe t-case right to the jack. That keeps it from falling off the jack and gets it oriented at the right angle when you go back together with it.

 

[csnider]

Unless the front seal on the transmission is leaking I wouldn't pull the transmission all the way out, Idid mine without a transmission jack, used a bottle jack to hold the engine from tilting and my floor jack under the transmission or transfer case, can't remember which end is heavy. Then you can just slide thransmission and transfer case back as far as it will go(about 5") till it hits the crossmember, I don't think you could get the torque converter out but pulling the flex plate and the adapter plate to get at the rear main seal can be done and you don't have to disconnect everything. The seal is in an aluminum mount that unbolts so you can drive the seal in out of the truck and then just bolt it back in.

If you've never taken one of these apart the strangest thing to me is that you don't undo the bolts that connect the torque converter and flexplate from the bottom through the inspection cover, you get to the bolts through a hole in the adapter plate behind the turbo, there is a cover over the hole and then you have to rotate the engine to get to the bolts.



Good luck,

Caleb

Caleb,

So, did you just rest the transmission on the cross member as you pulled it back while supporting the transfer case with a floorjack?. . Sounds quick. . Did you have to get a gasket for the plate the rear seal goes in?... I took a look under there and it seems the cooler lines may have to be dissconnected. . What actually did you dissconnect to get the transmission back 5"... I've been putting off this task but since it's nice and cool outside and I already have the seal kit. I'm gonna tackle this real soon... . Thanks for any experiences/advice your sharing... ... . Later... .

Chuck

 

[Madurski]

Transmission jack for sale

Since I installed a lift in the shop, and I have a tall transmission jack, I don't need my "jack mount" transmission jack.



Anyone want to buy it?

 

[TKingsbury]

Suuuurreee :-laf . You can delete them you know, click on the edit at the bottom of each and delete them

Travis. .

 

[ABGordon]

So far what I am getting out of this thread is there are 3 methods for gaining access to the rear main seal:



1. Jack the truck up high enough to remove the transmission. A low profile transmission jack will help here. Safety is maximized by using a transmission jack instead of a bolt on attachment to your floor jack. Watch out that the transfer case does not become unbalanced and tip the transmission jack over on its side.



2. Unbolt the transmission and transfer case and various lines, then slide these components back until they hit the crossmember. Using about 5" of clearance replace the rear seal and optionally replace the flexplate.



3. Unbolt the transmission/transfer case from the engine, but leave them bolted to the crossmember. Unbolt the crossmember and remove all components out from under the truck.



I am thinking I like option number 2 as the least intimidating of the 3 evils. I will probably do this job in March 2005, and will try to document the procedure to post on this forum. Still wish I knew whether option 2 allows replacement of the cam plug... .

 

[Madurski]

I just did this a few weeks ago. It's a lot easier to do it on a lift Anyway, I took apart the tcase and transmission since I didn't feel comfortable with all of that weight balancing in the air. It's only a few extra bolts to undo although it was a challenge getting the tcase back onto the jack (I had to remove it to get the transmission out).



I removed the crossmembers and used tall floor jacks to hold up the motor.



I was able to get the transmission off without upsetting the torque converter so I didn't replace any transmission seals.



I was unaware of any issues with the cam plug, what's the deal with it?



Which Springfield, VA do you live in? Mapquest shows 4 of them. If you are on the western part of the state it may be worth your while to come over to WV and use my lift. I also have a press which makes the u-joint replacement less painful.

 

[DDudgeon]

Hey the cam plug is really simple. While your at the cummins dealer pick up a new plug and seal, or o-ring. You have to pull off the engine to transmission adapter, then you'll see it above and to the left of the main. Its about 2 1/2" in diameter. I used a drill bit and some of those handy dandy #10 screws. Drill one hole in the center of the plug, screw in the #10, and use a small prybar to pop it out. My prybar was about 12" long. Clean out any chips that may have accumulated, a small magnet works well. Put the O-ring in then the seal, I believe it is called a welch plug, then hit it with a hammer a few times to flatten it out. But to swing a hammer in there you'll probably want the transmission pulled all the way out.

I was able to remove the torque converter bolts just from removing the inspection cover. Once the bolts are loose use some needle nose plyers. They fall right out.

Hey Greenleaf, let me know if you need some help I dont think I'm to far from you. I'm in Pandora, But with the knowledge i've gotten from you I dont think you'll need much help. Good Luck guys.