Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) transmission Trouble

[DStarkey]

I am a brand new subscriber to TDR. My 99 2500 4WD automatic has suddenly developed a strange shift from first to second. This only happens the very first time the trans shifts from first to second, after that everything is normal. It is staying in first approx twice as long as usual, not shifting until about 2500 rpm. I have the 3. 55 rear gear, so normal operation is shifting about 1500 rpm/18 mph under light acceleration. This has just started, but is happening every time the truck is started now. I had something similar happen before when the speed sensor in the rear-end went out, but the ABS light was on and the speedo was going nuts in addition to the strange shifts. I have no other symptoms now. Anybody got any ideas?

Thanks-DSTARKEY

 

[rrausch]

Welcome to the TDR DStarkey! This is a great site, with a lot of great guys and 1 or 2 mean old grouches



It sounds like your problem could be one of many things, but I would do a trans fluid and filter change on it first thing. If you positively know that the trans fluid and filter were just changed, (because you did it yourself, or have a receipt from the previous owner) then I would check the trans fluid level.



Check it Hot, with the engine running, on level ground... check it with the trans selector in Neutral AFTER shifting through the gear positions--PRND21 and then back to N.



Ideally it should read a little over full. These transmissions love to be a little over-full of fluid, and don't much like to run low on fluid.

On my '95 I change trans fluid every 12,000 miles just like the factory (and ATS) say to do. And I change it using Chrysler ATF Plus 3, Type 7176, and YES they charge a lot for it. Some guys here use other cheaper fluids and apparently they do OK with it, but I am sticking with ATF +3, 7176. Call me traditional.

 

[DStarkey]

Thanks for the info Robert! I love the TDR magazine and site. I only wish I had joined sooner . I will recheck my fluid level right away. The truck has 95k miles on it now-I have owned since 25k. I run AMSOIL ATF with trans flushes every 20-30k. Is this flush a good thing, or should I be sticking to "normal" services?



If the transmission is on the way out, do you recommend the ATS unit? Over the past few days I have been researching all the trannys I can find, but it is always nice to hear from someone who drives one. Any other tips you can provide are appreciated!





Thanks-



DSTARKEY

 

[rrausch]

There are a lot of Amsoil guys on this site who can give you better advice about Amsoil flushes than I can. Post a Thread specific to Amsoil and they will be on it like a Duck on a Junebug! I've never used Amsoil.



I do have the ATS Stage IV trans, which I have had for 30,000 miles and I LOVE it! I got it when I had 107,000 miles on my truck and it is the BEST thing I ever did to my truck. I am slightly bombed, I probably make only about 250 H. P. , and the TripleLok is great. My truck sprints off the line now, instead of making a lot of noise and slogging slowly forward! A week ago on Wednesday I was at a stop sign, and had to scoot across 4 lanes of busy traffic... an impatient idiot was stopped on my tail honking behind me... and this tiny space opened up in traffic and I braked it hard and hit the gas pedal to get some boost, then the space was in front of me and I floored it and released the brake. I impressed myself! I'm not a burn-out kind of a guy, but I did a burn out across 3 lanes of traffic that day! That guy behind me stopped honking too, when he had that big cloud of smoke to deal with! Ha!



I got my ATS Stage IV when I drove to Denver about a year and a half ago, but they have hundreds of installers all over the country who can put in the system for you. I believe Clint Cannon has done the most thorough job of engineering of all the performance trans builders out there. They re-engineer, heat-treat, cyrogenically treat or just plain re-invent many, many parts in the 47RH, 47RE and 48RE to make them able to handle High HP and monster Torque. The TripleLok has been tested to over 1600 Foot Pounds of Torque! It is bulletproof.

I would do it again in a heartbeat. Clint's number is 800-949-6002 if you want to call him.

 

[DStarkey]

Thanks for the info-hearing from someone who drives one always makes it easier to believe the ads!



DSTARKEY

 

[Jim Fulmer]

The TripleLok has been tested to over 1600 Foot Pounds of Torque! It is bulletproof.



Name the person!

 

[rrausch]

Clint Cannon.

 

[WadePatton]

We're not allowed to discuss transmission A vs. transmission B on here, because it starts a war.



But I will mention the other two popular transmission upgrader folks for the Dodge/Cummins setup. They are DTT and Sun Coast.



I'm putting a Sun Coast in my dad's truck this weekend.



EVERYBODY agrees that a properly re-engineered transmission is TONS better and more durable than the stock offering for our trucks.

 

[rrausch]

I was talking to Clint at ATS a few weeks ago, and I asked him how they tested the ATS TripleLok to 1700 Ft. Lbs. of torque.



"Torque Wrench" Clint said.

"Huh?" I replied.



He told me what happened. After he and his guys developed the TripleLok, they bolted a heavy steel table down to their concrete shop floor with Grade 8 bolts. And to the top of the steel table they welded up a massive steel jig to hold the TripleLok TC and another jig to apply lock-up pressure to it in measurable increments. Then they went out and bought the biggest, baddest Industrial Torque Wrench they could find, (which only went up to 1,200 Ft. Lbs. of Torque). First they put a new stock Dodge T. C. clutch in the jig, applied stock line pressure in increments up to full-throttle lock-up line pressure, and got it to start slipping at a little over 550 Ft. Lbs. of Torque. They tried several stock Dodge TC clutches, both new and used, applied the stock line pressure, and got them all to slip in about 540-560 Ft. Lb range. Then they got ALL the Competition's Single Disk TC Clutches, (Yes ALL of them--every one!). No matter whose TC Clutch they used, if it was a single disk, it began to slip in the 550 Ft. Lb. range, using stock (full throttle) line pressure. Then they tested their own TripleLok, but only used ONE Raybestos clutch lining in it. It slipped at about 570 Ft. Lbs. Then they pulled the TripleLok apart, and put 2 Raybestos Clutches in it... It took about 1,150 Ft. Lbs. of Torque to slip 2 clutches at stock line pressure. To reach this amount of Torque took up to 6 guys hunkered down on that monster Torque Wrench. They broke welds, they ripped Grade 8 bolts out of concrete, They bent steel table legs, etc. etc. They knew there was no way they could manually exceed 1,200 Ft. Lbs. of Torque which was the limit of the wrench. So they extrapolated the results mathematically. If 1 Raybestos Clutch held to 570 Ft. Lbs. , and 2 Raybestos Clutches held to 1,150 Ft. Lbs. then 3 would hold to around 1,720 Ft. Lbs.



That's how they tested it. Note they didn't include the effects that fluid coupling would have--fluid coupling would increase the torque holding ability of any TC. So conservatively, without any fluid coupling figured in, the TripleLok will hold over 1,700 Ft. Lbs. of Torque.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

So how is that Direct clutch pack and stock input shaft/hub... . it's weaker than the converter... . heck I proved that with my truck.



Jim

 

[fox]

Is there a video on this test that is available to the public?

Also how does this kind of test apply to a rotating load?

It is good to have as much info as possible.

I hope this does not get locked be fore these questions get answered. Theses questions are asked with full interest.

 

[rrausch]

fox, the use of a Torque Wrench demands a rotational force be applied to whatever the Wrench is attached to. Do you not agree? I bet there is no video, but I might be wrong. You might call them 800-949-6002. Also, I might have forgotten some part of the test. I am remembering a conversation which took place several weeks ago, although my memory for technical things is pretty good.



Jim Fulmer, I don't know if I understand your question, but ATS has never had a problem breaking stock input shafts, although they did supply me a Cyroed one with my Stage IV kit. It doesn't cost that much to cyrogenically treat an input shaft. I think other Performance Trans builders DO have a problem breaking the stock shafts, but ATS doesn't have that reputation, at least I have not heard of that being a problem with ATS. Don Ramer, when he worked at ATS, dynoed over 500 H. P. and ran a stock input shaft for years. I don't know if he ever changed it out, but I don't think he has had an input shaft break--I think we would have heard about it if he had. In my '95 the clutch packs were upgraded by adding additional clutches and steels, to increase the life of the clutch packs. Again, these things have NOT shown up as problems with ATS. In my opinion, that is due to the superior level of engineering put into the ENTIRE system. These guys spent years testing the TripleLok on their own trucks. Clint said he blew out about 20+ transmissions in his Dodge and Don Ramer blew up about the same amount in his Dodge. (Although Clint also owns a Powerstroke) I gotta respect that kind of testing! They didn't just come up with an idea and let the public test it for them. They put their own trucks on the line. I like that.

 

[fox]

OK, lets go back to the original subject.



DStarkey, let me suggest that you check the throttle cable, it may be sticking in the rearward position. This will tell the trans to delay the shift.

You could also have a gov pressure sensor going out. It will need to have a gauge put on it and to be watched as the problem occures.

 

[rrausch]

I agree fox. Good idea.



Since I posted the above, Clint contacted me and told me I was not completely accurate with some of the details I reported. I will post a Thread on the Products & Accessories Forms to clarify how this test was done.

 

[DStarkey]

fix on the way

Thanks everyone for your input. I took the truck to Dodge and a local trans shop, and they checked the stuff you guys suggested. The consensus is a bad drum seal/transmission needs overhaul. The new unit is on the way from ATS... . I will keep you posted!





DSTARKEY

 

[rblomquist]

Hey guys. I just started to lose my stock transmission over the weekend while towing. I ordered a complete ATS setup (minus the commander) through a local shop today. If anyone would care to fill me in on what I should expect as far as difference from stock I would be appreciative i. e. when does it hit lockup, how much better acceleration over stock trans/converter etc.



PM or email me if you don't want to go there in this thread.



Thanks much,



Rich

 

[WadePatton]

Can't answer that but I'm putting a sled-tested Sun Coast transmission in Dad's truck this weekend. So we're both in for a new world.



From what I've read, heard, and seen, we'll both be very happy campers.



[This is not a solicitation for transmission X vs transmission Y, they're all good. ]

 

[rrausch]

Rich, you can expect a lot more response off the line and lock-up will be firm. No *****-footing around! I couldn't believe the difference in my truck. This is the best thing I ever did to my truck. You are in for a treat!



I could slip my stock T. C. Clutch at 100,000 miles fairly easily. My TripleLok won't slip.



I waited about a year before I got the Commander, and I wish I'd had it from the get-go. I have an exhaust brake, and it is great to be able to set the Commander, flip the E. B. switch, and let it come on automatically as it needs to.

 

[rblomquist]

Thanks. I don't have an EB so is it that critical not having it for now?



Thank

 

[Pat@BD]

DStarkey, I don't know which shop you went to but, If they are thinking the inner lip seal on the front clutch drum, I would dissagree. On the shift from 1st to 2nd the only things that happen are the front band engauges and the overruning/low reverse sprag disengauges. With a simple air check of the trans you could save yourself an unneeded expense. I would be alot more prone to look at what is controling the shifts, gov assem/valve body.

Steve T. BD.