Travel Trailer Suspension Adequacy (or Inadequacy)

[GAmes]

Perhaps you could have simply stated you prefer using a wd hitch instead of pronouncing my original statement "incorrect?"

Harvey, you were incorrect when you posted "commercial transporters never use them. " I've never paid any attention, but next time I'm on the road I'll look to see if any other company besides mine is using them.

 

[HBarlow]

Which... . to me is rather strange, because whenever a member requests an opinion on which setup to purchase, Harvey always states that the Reese Dual-Cam is the best and that he has logged thousands of miles behind 2 different trucks for a total of a 1/2million and never experienced a failure blah blah blah. It was just last week he boasted about never requiring a "special" fuel filter in his 2nd or 3rd Gen and went on to say that he never had to replace an injector in his 06 truck. I know for a fact that he stated more than once that he had to replace an injector in that 06' truck.

Good guy and he is a plethora of information, but sometimes you have to give him room to rant... ... sort of like listening to your Grandfathers fishing story's:-laf:-laf You're the man HB but when you place yourself in the spotlight as often as you do, members like myself and others remember everything you've posted in the past.

Alan

Alan,

Nice try but all wrong. You have bits and pieces of accurate information recalled from my old posts but you've mixed and matched the facts into incorrect information you're now spreading.

I used a Reese dual cam for many years towing Airstreams and an Avion with a '94 Furd F-250. I also used the Reese dual cam for a short while after I bought my first Dodge, an '01 dually, but after a while realized I was setting it up with so little spring tension it wasn't doing much of anything and quit using it.

I never used the Reese or any other wd hitch during the years I transported. I haven't looked at Horizon Transport's website or JET's website in years but the required equipment for drivers they listed back when I worked for them did not mention wd hitches. I think Horizon's indoctrination class all new drivers had to take specifically told drivers not to use them because they were not needed and would damage paint on trailer A frames.

Please review all of my posts pertaining to injectors and post your evidence that I reported replacing injectors in my '06. I will immediately send you a check for $500 when you locate and post it. The same promise is made to anyone who can find my post where I said that.

What you will find is that I have many times mentioned having a dealer with a skilled Cummins tech run the cylinder contribution test when the truck had a little over 200k miles on it and found all cylinders and injectors performing within tolerance. I think the lowest was around 95%. The truck was running great with an all original Cummins engine at 230k when I sold it and bought the '08 I have now. Again, for the record, I have never replaced a bad injector on any Ram truck (or any truck) in 750,000 miles with the three Dodges.

I have also posted of Joe Donnelly replacing all my injectors on my '01 with Bosch RV275s when the truck was only several months old back in 2001 at the TDR rally held in Kerrville, TX. I think the truck had six or eight thousand miles on the odometer at the time and now has 405,000 miles now with those Bosch RV275s according to my long time mechanic friend who owns the truck now. He was out here two weekends back to service my truck and I asked him about my/now his '01 Ram. That may be the source of your confusion.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, you were incorrect when you posted "commercial transporters never use them. " I've never paid any attention, but next time I'm on the road I'll look to see if any other company besides mine is using them.

Well, perhaps I should have said, "no commercial transporters except Gary Ames use weight distributing hitches. If you keep nitpicking my original statement long enough you may be able to convince yourself I was wrong. So far though it's not working. You may even be able to find another transporter and make my statement "incorrect" x 2.

 

[GAmes]

Well, perhaps I should have said, "no commercial transporters except Gary Ames use weight distributing hitches. If you keep nitpicking my original statement long enough you may be able to convince yourself I was wrong. So far though it's not working. You may even be able to find another transporter and make my statement "incorrect" x 2.

That is incorrect also Harvey. All the transporters in the company I drive for, and our sister company in IN, use WD. That was the only thing I disagreed with, btw. Quit being such an old grouch.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Well, time has passed and I thought I'd update what I have put together. We are taking our first trip this weekend - only around 250 miles away, but a big adventure for a newbie like me.



Truck Before Truck After



2012 2500 CC 4WD ST Trim 2012 2500 CC 4WD ST Trim

3. 73 rear axle ratio 3. 73 rear axle ratio

Firestone TransForce AT LT265/70R17 load range E tires Firestone TransForce AT LT265/70R17 load range E tires

tire weight rating = 3,200 tire weight rating = 3,200

no trailer brake controller MaxBrake trailer brake controller

stock transmission pan PML 68RFE Deep Transmission Pan: +4 quarts

BD Steering Box Stabilizer

Big Wig Rear Anti-Sway Bar



The transmission pan, steering box stabilizer, and antisway bar are added more in the thought of "can only be a plus" rather than thinking they are really required. I read a lot about Ram steeriomg issues before I bought the truck and figured the steering box stabilizer was just good insurance. Can't see that more fluid and cooling fins on a pan can ever hurt a transmission - should yield cooler fluid - figure this can only help.





Travel Trailer Before Travel Trailer After



1995 Jayco Eagle Series 304 BH 1995 Jayco Eagle Series 304 BH

GVWR = 7,800 tandem axle GVWR = 7,800 tandem axle

double eye spring suspension; equalizer double eye spring suspension; equalizer

three leaves in leaf springs three leaves in leaf springs

axle weight rating = 3,500 axle weight rating = 6,000

10 inch brake drum; electric brakes 12 inch brake drum; electric brakes

Loadstar ST205/75R15 load range C tires Firestone TransForce HT LT225/75R16 load range E tires

tire weight rating = 1,700 tire weight rating = 2,700

Draw-Tite Weight Distributing Hitch: 8,000 Equal-I-Zer Weight Distributing w/ Anti-Sway Hitch: 12,000



The axles are Dexter axles. I originally intended to get 5,000 lb axles, but for some reason in the pricing the 6,000 lb were a whopping $35 more each so I kind of went far beyond on that one. Figured it can't hurt. Did not changethe spring set-up; seems adequate for the actual load and don't want a hard bounce. I really like the idea of the 16 inch LT tire rather than the 15 inch ST tire; really like the idea of the 12 inch brake drum instead of the 10 inch brake drum. I noticed that the 12,000 lb Equali-i-Zer hitch was also only around $30 more than the 10,000 pound so went far beyond on that one as well.



The one thing that I am a little concerned about is the amount of clearance I have at the top of the wheel well on the trailer; this is less than it was due to moving from the 15 inch to 16 inch tires. As best I can tell there is between 1. 5 inches and 2. 0 inches available for vertical wheel travel. I am going to keep an eye out for rubbing. There is still a good four inches between the tires so I think I am fine in that regard.



I think I would be good with 65 psi in the trailer tires and 70 psi in the truck tires - that would more closely match the load than maximum inflation - at least, that is how I understand it and read the inflation chart. 65 psi in the trailer tires would yield 9,200 capacity; 70 psi in the truck tires would yield 11,200 capacity - seems right in there to me.



My plan is drive an hour or so and then stop and check the trailer lug nuts. I figured I would hit the tow/haul and exhaust brake buttons and roll along at around 60 mph. Interstate speed limit is 65 mph on this trip - but I am new to all of this so I am in no rush.



My thinking is I have lots - lots of truck, lots of trailer suspension, lots of tire capacity, lots of braking capacity. I appreciate all of the discussion on the forum on this issue - very helpful to a newbie like me. Please let me know if you see any issues. I'll try to get a picture when we head out on Friday morning and get it posted.



Thanks again,



RUSSELL

 

[HBarlow]

The axles, wheels, and tires should prove to be a significant improvement. Be careful about cranking in too much spring bar tension. Trunnion bars with excess capacity are not necessarily a good thing. If they're too stiff for the load they will cause a rough ride and can even bend the trailer's frame.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks, Harvey,

Application of the trunnion bars was the most uncertain part of the hitch installation to me. I followed the directions and did a little and looked at the alignment of the truck and trailer, repeated, until the truck and trailer appeared to be in a nice line. I note that the front of the truck came up a little in the process - instructions said this is normal for 3/4 or 1 ton with long wheelbase. But, can't say I understand which is right and which is wrong. Is there a better way?

Thanks,

RUSSELL

Here is an unscrambled before and after:

Truck Before
2012 2500 CC 4WD ST Trim
3. 73 rear axle ratio
Firestone TransForce AT LT265/70R17 load range E tires
tire weight rating = 3,200
no trailer brake controller
stock transmission pan


Truck After

2012 2500 CC 4WD ST Trim
3. 73 rear axle ratio
TransForce AT LT265/70R17 load range E tires
tire weight rating = 3,200
MaxBrake trailer brake controller
PML 68RFE Deep Transmission Pan: +4 quarts
BD Steering Box Stabilizer
Big Wig Rear Anti-Sway Bar

 
Travel Trailer Before

1995 Jayco Eagle Series 304 BH
GVWR = 7,800 tandem axle
double eye spring suspension; equalizer
three leaves in leaf springs
axle weight rating = 3,500
10 inch brake drum; electric brakes
Loadstar ST205/75R15 load range C tires
tire weight rating = 1,700
Draw-Tite Weight Distributing Hitch: 8,000
Travel Trailer After

1995 Jayco Eagle Series 304 BH
GVWR = 7,800 tandem axle
equalizer double eye spring suspension; equalizer
three leaves in leaf springs
axle weight rating = 6,000
12 inch brake drum; electric brakes
Firestone TransForce HT LT225/75R16 load range E tires
tire weight rating = 2,700
Equal-I-Zer Weight Distributing w/ Anti-Sway Hitch: 12,000

 

[HBarlow]

Russell, Think of the trunnion bars as the handles of a wheelbarrow. Picture yourself standing behind your truck lifting the handles to level your truck and trailer. The wd system was originally designed long ago when people began pulling travel trailers with family cars. Adding the tongue weight of a travel trailer overloaded the rear springs and the rear of the tow vehicle and nose of the trailer sagged. Tensioning the trunnion or spring bars and attaching the chains to the trailer A frame shifted some of the tongue weight forward to tow vehicle front suspension and part of the load back to the trailer axles. You can safely tow a light travel trailer with no wd bars but a slight application of bar tension can be good. Use just enough bar tension to gently lift the truck's rear bumper back to normal unloaded ride height. Use an old fashioned wooden yard stick for measurement unloaded and loaded and use the trailer's tongue jack to adjust.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Here is an update on the first trip. We went about 300 miles each way for a 600 mile round trip.



The new axles, wheels, and tires on my camper worked great (Firestone Transforce HT LT225/75E R16). I was running @65 psi (used an inflation chart). Drove for a little over three hours on Friday - temperature in middle 80s - stopped and put my hand on the tires. The tires felt cooler than the pavement - and cooler than the tires on the truck (Firestone TransForce AT LT265/70E R17 inflated @70 psi according to inflation chart). The tires on the truck were just a little warmer than the pavement - but far from hot. No sign of any scrubbing of the tires in the wheel wells - the larger tires fit just fine.



Fuel mileage was 11. 5 miles per gallon on trip down (hand calculated). I drove with the tachometer on the way home - objective was to drive with the tach at 1550 RPM, which equated to roughly 63 miles per hour speed. Got 12. 2 miles per gallon on trip back home. Truck easily pulled the trailer and loaded gear: got caught on a hill behind a truck - slowed to 50 mph and then went around, accelerating right back to up to speed with downshift and rpm going to 1800-2000.



I used the tow/haul and exhaust brake. The only thing I noticed was that the truck seemed to hold the last shift a little bit long with the tow-haul on - had to lift the foot off the pedal to get that last shift. The truck would run up to low 60s mph speed at around 1900 RPM and stay there - lifting foot on the pedal allowed shift and then settle in to running at 1550 RPM/around 63 mph. That exhaust brake has got to be the greatest thing since sliced bread - it is great to head down a hill to a red light at an intersection and be slowing way down without even touching the brake pedal!



I have looked and looked at the hitch setup - think I still have a little more tuning - front of trailer is up a little - trailer is not completely level when hooked up.



Finally - as a newbie - it sure is a lot easier to run down the interstate than a two lane highway twisting around hills! It is even a little more interesting to navigate the trailer down the little country road to the campground where you have to avoid scrubbing the trees!



Thanks to those of you that responded to all my questions earlier, and especially to Harvey Barlow for taking the time to explain things to a newbie.



RUSSELL

 

[HBarlow]

Russell,

I'm glad you are pleased with your results.

BTW, max fuel economy might occur at a little higher rpm than the 1550 rpm you were operating at. I think max torque is produced at 1500 rpm in the pickup version of the 6. 7, at 1600 rpm in the cab and chassis (like mine) but you are operating at the very bottom of peak torque. I think the engine produces slightly better fuel economy at around 1950 rpm if all other things are equal.

 

[FParisi]

Great job upgrading your trailer! Exceptionally well researched + thought out!

I have found that a tire moitoring system gives a lot of peace of mind, especially for trailer tires. I got the TST system which reads pressure + temperature. Something to consider as time + miles go by. Enjoy!

 

[Kirwin]

What did your Dexter 6000 axles cost if you don't mind saying?

 

[RUSSELL5000]

What did your Dexter 6000 axles cost if you don't mind saying?

They came through Redneck Trailer Supply and ordered through the suspension shop that did the swap work. With electric brakes and EZ Lube the 5,200 were just under $1,000 - the 6,000 were $1,050. There was less than $100 difference per axle - why I went with the 6,000. There was also freight of $350 for the two axles. New axles, springs, components, five new steel wheels, and five new tires along with freight, shop labor, and tax came in at $3,200.


If you are doing the work yourself you may be able to do better on price and save freight by picking up. I think I recall better prices when I was researching.

It was not a cheap date, but allows ease of mind rolling down the road versus stock suspension.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I thought I would post this follow-up, and again express my appreciation to this forum and assistance in educating myself. I think it has been invaluable.



We took a nice trip to southeastern Pennsylvania and West Virgina at the end of August. My myself, wife, two sons, and two dogs were all riding in the truck together going to Canaan valley State park in West Virginia. An eighteen wheel tractor-trailer rig loaded with harvested logs flew by us on a two lane road in West Virginia going way over the speed limit and passing on the double yellow line; it cut in front of us to avoid running into a car in the oncoming lane; I could see the smoke coming off the trailer tires. I had to slow fast to say the least. My trailer never swayed; the trailer slowed instantly as my foot touched the brake pedal. I think I could count the rings in the cut tree logs on the trailer in front of me - but we did not collide. I doubt we were as close as my perception - but still way too close in my opinion. My shorts were so brown I just threw them away!



The only damage was the dogs sliding off the seats - they were fine (looked at me rather indignantly, though!).



All this suspension, tire, and brake education and work was worth every penny.



Thanks.

 

[GAmes]

I'm glad you had positive results. Just in case Harvey is looking, here is a Horizon transporter's pickup I spotted in Iowa.

 

[tommyturbo]

Hello again RUSSELL5000. Would like to tell a trailering story my family grew with. Married in 1998, our first family

camping trip was to Tehachepi, CA in 2000 with a rented pop up tent trailer and my '97 Dakota single cab, eight

foot bed 24W work truck. Really cramped in the cab for the three of us. Next bought an '03 Ram 2500 QC SLT 5. 7 4:10.

I wanted the V10 but it was dropped in '03. Bought an '04 Pioneer TT, 5000lb entry level cheapie. Camped with that

combo for the next five seasons. No WD or any sway bars. Towing produced a little wriggle but never a problem. Not

even a tire blowout. Just the struggling up grades. Was interested in upgrading to diesel. Noticed in '08', gusslers

couldn't be given away. So found an '08 CTD 2500 Big Horn QC, Auto, 4:10 sticker $43,790. Got it for $29,000.

Then in early '09 went to hook up The Pioneer from storage and found the floor had extensive dry rot. Looked online and found a used '08 Cherokee with a beautiful floor plan, two huge opposing slides and a back door. New '08

retail was $36,000. Got it for $16,800 and $6000 trade in for the rotten Pioneer. The previous owner took good

care of it. Looked like new. Hooked up and headed down the I-5. What a hassle! Could hardly keep between

the lines. Swaying so bad I was scared of swiping someone. Went to the local RV service and bought an

Equal-i-zer 1,000lb tongue and 10,000lb max trailer wt. WD hitch. That cured it, Pronto! As a matter of fact,

we were leaving Moccasin Point HWY 49 when before HWY 108 my wife asked me to check the hitch because

she actually finished putting the L pins in herself. Pulled over and found right side L pin and clip missing and

one bar was swung out of the L bracket. She said that she wasn't sure if it was in backwards or not.

Anyway, removed the bar which left only one for sway. On the way to Oakdale along HYW 108 stopped at

every RV service looking for a replacement L pin but nothing in stock. Drove the next seven hours back

home and could not tell any difference. One bar instead of the two required worked just fine. I was impressed!

Next, wanted to level the trailer a little better when hitched and moved the Equalizer set up two more holes

up. that made the trailer ok but the truck would still squat a little. Gen 3 soft springs vs Gen 2 shorter stiffer

springs. Having Timbren springs on my '97 Dakota helped haul a ton of steel once, so I installed a set of A00545-65Q30 Timbren hollow rubber springs. Fifteen minute install. Just change out from where the axle

bump stops were. That did the trick. Now the trailer was too high. Relocated the hitch holes again and all is

level. Looks like Timbrens apply to heavily laden axles in large service trucks as well. Might even apply to

top heavy slide in campers, to control the corner turning sway. When not towing, the ride is stock, but a little

harsh over nasty bumps. I have about one half inch space before the rubber springs touch the axle but

can be spaced as desired using shims provided. I'm the only driver and I don't mind a little jounce now

and then. This truck is set up for max towing first and grocery getter second.

Tires: Five seasons with the Pioneer, no flats. Second season with the Cherokee was different. First blowout

was in the middle of the desert near Quartzite I-10 to Phoenix. Trailer damage. Good Sam changed it in less

than an hour total. Bought a spare at Discount Tire in Phoenix near closing time. Got a 15" E rated TR.

Next season, CA 99 north at Madera, blowout. Good Sam fixed in 45 mins. While looking for a tire dealer

to get another spare, another tire blew out exiting the ramp at the next town. Limped across a five way

intersection right into a body shop parking lot. No spare but the body shop did a quick band aid repair

of the damage from the Madera blowout. Three blocks away was a big tire shop, so limped in there

and bought two more E rated tires. The tire shop said that I should replace the last D rated tire left on the

trailer and I agreed. E rated all around. Went on our way. Since then, I searched the good ol' TDR again

and found out a lot. The history of Chinese trailer tires. Going to 16" wheels with more selection of

quality tires. Reading comments including Harvey B. about Michelin XPS Rib. My wife cannot take the stress

knowing another blowout is imminent. XPS all around now. Luckily, had 6 lug axles and room. When the wife's happy, were all happy!

Thanks TDR!



Tom

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Tom,



Looks like you lived what I did not want to experience; confirms that it can be a whole lot better to learn from others than by experience!!! I'm glad nobody got hurt on any of your blowouts.



I really appreciate what I have learned through this forum - the insights others have provided have been very helpful. For this question in particular H. Barlow was most helpful by identifying the 16 inch LT tire option and the MaxBrake controller.



Russell

 

[WalterJ]

RUSSELL5000; Glad your intelligence firstly led you to join this awesome forum! 2ndly you followed up on some good advice within. That's been my experience here as well.

The RV industry has lobbied for & is working under the most egregious standards for road vehicles I can imagine. I don't share these thoughts much with my wife any longer, as it affects her sense of security & safety. I've experienced one tread separation each of five years, before discovering Goodyear G614 commercial tires. Some here have sworn at them, some swear by them; it seemed to relate to their history of manufacture, early ones were bad, newer ones are good.

I too recently learned of the Firestone Transforce tires. I think my Michelin 265/70R17's are being overloaded & considering the Transforce as replacements. I'd be interested in others' experience with these Firestone's.

Safe travels & don't forget your "walk arounds".

p. s. My Michelin's have the same 3195# load rating as the Transforce... never mind.

 

[Mark31]

Walter, when I bought my McElrath equipment trailer in '01, it came with Firestone Transforce tires that were already too old to sell. Owner Rick Conner nor I knew how to read manufacture date codes at that time. When the tires were 12 or 13 years old, I noticed a couple of them separating and replaced them all with more Transforce tires. When loaded with my tractor, loader with grapple, rear blade with weights for counter weight, gross combined is about 23,500 and 130 lbs overload for each tire. I have no reservations about recommending Transforce to you. If I was going far and fast, I would probably check on the 17. 5 tires, but with just my local stuff, I have a lot of confidence in 'em. Mark