Trial by force of the Spicer Life front knuckle u-joints

[mwilson]

Good Morning,

Got up bright and early to get some work done on the truck, beautiful day here.

On the list...

New front shocks
New LH knuckle u-joint
New brake pads

Tore into the left side, only issue was rotor stuck to hub in SPITE of the Never Seez I used last time. Got it all apart, old u-joint removed. Grab my two Moog 464 u-joints and open the boxes.

Contains Spicer Extra-Life non greasable joints. I am PI**ED, if I had wanted the Spicers than I would have ordered the darn Spicers. It's Sunday and nothing is open for parts stores in my little town so they are going in as I don't want to drive 120 miles round trip to try again.
Left one is installed, the seals are impressive. Not a lot of grease in them but directions say not to add any. These had better last....

So check your boxes for content if you want greasable 464 joints.

The website still shows them as greasable but take it from me, my two are not and have Spicer stamped right on them. Could be a packaging error??

http://www.amazon.com/Moog-464-MOOG-Universal-Joint/dp/B009HQM9WA

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mog-464

Mike.

 

[cerberusiam]

The non-greasable joints are supposedly good for 200k in normal conditions, that is probably an adequate lifetime. They are stronger also.

What I have done is repack the cups with a high quality grease when installed. The OE amount and type seems to be suspect.

As to the packaging, I ma never surprised at what is actually in a box anymore.

 

[mwilson]

They looked ok, but what started my sniveling fit was the fact that I could have purchased either the Spicer or the Moog on my Carquest Weblink as separate items. The fact that the Spicer's were in the Moog 464 box is what threw me. I have purchased the 464 joints before so I never even opened the boxes before tearing the truck apart.

Maybe the Spicer's will be better. That 464 joint in the truck only lasted about 70,000 miles. It's had a dry cross for a couple years, started snapping in a hard pull last year. Figured that I had better deal with it first off this year or prepare to buy some yokes when it came apart.

The Spicer does look stronger. Very nice seals also.

 

[jkalchik]

My suspicion is that somebody returned those u-joints, having swapped the Spicers into the Moog packaging. The problem is worse when the items are out in public view, anything I pick up in the parts store in a box gets opened at the counter to make sure that what's inside is right (oil filters are the worst.) I'm really no longer surprised at the lengths that some people will go to so they can commit fraud.

 

[TFucili]

So many companies have merged, and been bought out by mega-holding companies it's hard to tell what you get any more. Brands don't "stand" for anything anymore.

 

[mwilson]

My suspicion is that somebody returned those u-joints, having swapped the Spicers into the Moog packaging. The problem is worse when the items are out in public view, anything I pick up in the parts store in a box gets opened at the counter to make sure that what's inside is right (oil filters are the worst.) I'm really no longer surprised at the lengths that some people will go to so they can commit fraud.

The boxes were pristine, but I still should have checked. I dispense that advice here on a regular basis but simply saw nothing to indicate anything was wrong.

The Spicer joints cost about $20.00 more each than the 464 joints so I made out value wise. Maybe they are tougher than an anvil and I have been missing out.

 

[mwilson]

So many companies have merged, and been bought out by mega-holding companies it's hard to tell what you get any more. Brands don't "stand" for anything anymore.

That is certainly true in our new "Global Economy"........where you can't get any reman Detroit Diesel DD15 engines, long blocks, etc. because they RAN OUT of OIL PUMPS.......try explaining that to a customer......

 

[TFucili]

That is certainly true in our new "Global Economy"........where you can't get any reman Detroit Diesel DD15 engines, long blocks, etc. because they RAN OUT of OIL PUMPS.......try explaining that to a customer......

That's "Just In Time" Manufacturing... "Unless We Run Out"

 

[mwilson]

^^^^^^^^A Thousand Likes for the above post!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[TFucili]

Mike, are they not buying Melling pumps as OEM?

 

[mwilson]

Not sure, pumps are labeled as DDR "Reliabilt" but unsure of the OEM manufacturer or rebuilder.

In reality Daimler Truck has gained so much market share that the parts stream cannot keep up, production is sucking up all resources.

 

[TFucili]

There was a time when mfrs would pull parts from production to fulfill "up-time" commitments to customers. I guess those days are long gone.

I have a buddy who is a retired AMC/Jeep/Mopar engineer, and he says it was all about Material Cost Management or MCM, for short. But MCM really translates to Make Customers Mad!

 

[mwilson]

They do that on occasion depending on who the customer is and how much screaming is going on, nothing like the old days when they would pull parts right off of the line after a truck had been down for 72 hours.

 

[AEdelheit]

I put the sealed Spicers in mine, packed a little extra grease like Cerberusiam and haven't had any issues, wouldn't hesitate to run them again .

 

[AH64ID]

The non-greasable joints are supposedly good for 200k in normal conditions, that is probably an adequate lifetime. They are stronger also.

What I have done is repack the cups with a high quality grease when installed. The OE amount and type seems to be suspect.

As to the packaging, I ma never surprised at what is actually in a box anymore.

Agree, thou I didn't add any extra grease to mine.

Everyone I talked to at driveline shops said to stick with OEM or quality sealed u-joints for strength/service life.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Mike, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the Spicers. I've used both, and even with a good grease, the 464s don't last as long as the Spicers. It's been my experience, if you fill the spicer up with good quality grease, blowing out all the cosmoline you can, you can get 150-200k out of them easy. I use the Spicer, now, as the Moog/UniCrapBrand? is unreliable. I can't trust them, and I don't have time to be dropping what I'm doing to go rescue my Dad or ranch foreman from some sandy road or river crossing because a U-joint exploded in a feed truck. Inland won't use anything else, as they had WAY to many comebacks, most a victim of greaseworms. And the 464s won't take the torque, either. Ask my '03 sitting in a corner of the yard about hubs and Ujoints .... the one with the Warn front locking hub (free spin hub kit) that is DESTROYED!! I've broken several of various brand locking hubs, as well as U-joints. The Spicer is the way to go, so whoever did whatever, did do you a favor, IMO, so don't be too mad.

 

[mwilson]

Ok, you all have talked me into it. I am tearing into the right side today and will change that joint while there.

Will post some pictures later of the front brake pads that I am replacing at 137,000 miles. Needless to say I ordered the OEM pads for replacement......

Also installing the Bilsteins, changing the left one sucked. No gentler way to put it. Too much stuff in the way.

 

[mwilson]

Just getting back from picking up new glasses, making the jump from bi-focals to progressive lenses. Let's see how this works when trying to hit something........

 

[HHhuntitall]

"Don't hold no cold chisel for no cross-eyed sum-buck!"- W.O. Harrington (My grandfather)

 

[TFucili]

Just getting back from picking up new glasses, making the jump from bi-focals to progressive lenses. Let's see how this works when trying to hit something........

It has not gone well for me. It usually results in me cursing as I tell myself I can see better without the durn things.