Tried to order an 2011.5

[Wertles]

I have had the truck in my sig since new. This year we traded in the Jayco 5er for a much heavier toy hauler, 14K empty and 18K or so fully loaded. A few weeks ago looked at trading in on a new duelly but the numbers just didn't work out at three different dealers. I couldn't see giving up my truck and 30K for a truck that was still not rated to pull the trailer so I decided to give my truck a make over and keep it a few years longer. Well, halfway through my make over, doesn't Dodge, sorry, Ram, come out with the truck I need. I had the day off today, which usually turns out to be very expensive, and I went back to the dealer to see if I am going to trade in or continue the make over. After two hours of messing around, I find out that they can't even place an order for another two weeks. They also are not sure how much more it is going to cost. He still tried to get me to put down a deposit but that wasn't going to happen.

I guess my question is... Do I continue with my make over? I have a set of rims sitting at Rickson right now waiting for Bridgestone tires that should be there this week. I have a set of air bags sitting in my basement waiting for warm weather and I have the new diesel exhaust muffler from MBRP shipping as I text to install to get rid of the drone while towing. We usually do one larger trip a year with the trailer and two or three smaller trips. The rest of the time it is set up at the campground.

BTW, I have been reading this forum daily for over 5 years now and have learned so much about my truck. Thanks to everyone.

 

[Tryingit]

I would continue with the make over. Have you tried a Smarty JR or something along those lines? You can always hold off for another year or two. Our 4th generation trucks do a better job of towing than the 5. 9ls. It did better than my 04. 5 with a Smarty JR, a cat back exhaust and a cold air intake. There are two things that trouble a lot of people. One the fuel mileage and the other is the softer suspension. You get more squat and a mushier feeling. The new truck may be even worse in the fuel mileage dept. . When one comes out take a test drive. But then again that may be an expensive test drive.

 

[AH64ID]

Honeslty you have just about all the truck the new one is. The frame/brakes are the same on your 06 as the 800 ft/lb truck. The rear springs may be different, but you have airbags. The new trucks will still have 17" rims, so if your tounge weight requires Rickson 19. 5's on the 06, it will on the 11. 5 or 12 (still don't know what it will be), unless your talking about getting the Max Tow, not just the 800 ft/lb version.



Put a few grand into your auto trans and get a Smarty Jr, set it on Tow and drive. The 4 speed auto isn't as nice for towing as the 6 speed auto, but you'll do just fine, especially considering the money spent, and you'll get better mileage too!



As for the trans, I am not the expert. I would call Gorend and see what you need to do to be able to tow 18K with 350 rwhp.

 

[HBarlow]

It's your money, your choice. Only you can calculate the value to you of a new '11. 5 rated to tow what you want and with the comfort it offers with a big price tag vs. modifying your current truck to adequately do what you want it to do at a fraction of the cost.

 

[MChrist]

Hmmmmm, 18K on a single rear wheel truck may be pushing it a bit. . even for me! Roughly 4000# pin weight... . I've had to carry 2 skids of salt (5000#) on my 2500 w/air bags for a short distance, and I wasn't scared, but I wouldn't want to have to go very far. I only had to go 5 miles on back roads, so hauling a camper with a cab full of family, and an expensive camper behind me blowing me around... I'd say "no thanks".
(Power wasn't the issue)

 

[AH64ID]

Your right MChrist, for some reason I read DRW not SRW, so yes the Ricksons will be needed on the SRW truck.

 

[rrl989]

I'll guess that the two week wait is due to the 800 tq CTD. Saw the TV commercial, Ram Truck month, CTD 800 lbs of TQ, so it must be the end of the 650 runs?

 

[WMoroni]

Keep the old truck. The decrease in fuel mileage from a 06 to an 11 is just not worth it. Been there, doing that.

 

[Jim W]

Do you have an exhaust brake? I did not see one in your signature nor did you mention one. I would look into an exhaust brake for your truck. This is one of the first options I was planning on for the 5. 9L truck that I looked at. Instead I bought a 2008, 6. 7L in Nov of 07. This has the factory exhaust brake ( I know Harvey dose not like this stated this way for the 6. 7L engine, but) that Dodge provides as standard. This helps in retarding the load when you are pulling a camper or some other type of loaded trailer. Saves on brake wear and will make a safer decent down a steep incline.

Jim W

 

[Wertles]

Thanks for all the input. I do not have an exhaust brake and I know that is the biggest piece of the puzzle I am missing. I am hoping that with appropriate speeds and lack of mountains around here I will be ok. I needed a new set of tires anyway and I knew 19. 5 would be a necessity and air bags are pretty inexpensive so I am hoping to make a good tow vehicle for about 4k. If I need to build a transmission and put an exhaust brake on I am now over the 10k mark and it would make more sense to trade in at that point. I wouldn't mind a smarty jr but I still have a year left on my warranty so I am in no way willing to risk that. Interestingly enough, my dealer service writer said he would warranty anything I broke as long as I removed it before I came in for work. I couldn't get it in writing so I wasn't biting on that one.
I think since I've gone this far on the truck I'll keep the current one. I guess a few short trips will tell me what I need to know. I've been towing lots of stuff since I was 16, most of the time way overloaded for whatever I had as a tow vehicle. I've learned a lot over the years but appreciate the wisdom of those who have worn out their seats many times.

 

[Harlacher]

Even with all those mods if you are over the sticker max weight if something were to happen you would automatically be at fault wouldn't you?

 

[Wiredawg]

I recommend going to 4500 or 5500 C&C. I have a 4500 and tow a 17K lb 5er. I towed it w/ a '00 2500 first w/ air bags... . decided I needed stability of a dually so traded for an '02 3500. When I removed the air bags from the '00 the upper bolts of the air bag bracket were sheared. I'm not a big fan of air bags. the 3500 never needed them.



I towed for several years w/ the 3500 when I decided to upgrade again to the 4500. It has the largest brakes, cml grade components that really handle the trailer well.



Just my advice... pulling big trailers on the highway w/ all the crazies requires top equip.



Best of luck deciding. Hope this helps.



Wiredawg

 

[Brianpump]

I hate to Be a smart a. but I always love the goody too shoes who pop up with the implication that you will automatically be in legel problems if you have a problem if over factory tow ratings. Hundreds and perhaps thousands have been towing over factory ratings since the beginning of trailering. I have not heard of one legal case directly attributed to being over factory ratings. The one thing that should be held legally responsible is common sense. Not much of that is used these days. I feel a dually is much more stable for hauling heavy. And the biggest safety factor is having an exhaust brake and the best trailer brakes and controller you can get. The other common sense factor is driving defensively giving plenty of space between you and the idiot in front of you. I have towed a 20,000 Teton with a 3500 dually without any issues but I was also a vary defensive driver.

Brian

 

[HBarlow]

Wertles,

I have grown tired of the endless arguments from members who own Ram 2500s and want to tow huge fifthwheels so didn't even mention that factor in my earlier post.

Personally, I would not own and routinely tow an 18,000 lb. fifthwheel with my Ram 3500 cab and chassis. A trailer that size requires a Ram 4500 or a MDT. I do agree with Brian above though, towing in excess of the manufacturer's gross combined weight ratings is only a guideline, not a legal limit, not enforceable, and does not automatically make you liable in the event of an accident although it might increase the probability of being blamed.

You mentioned a $10k figure as the deciding point for keeping your current truck vs. buying a new truck. Rickson wheels and tires are probably going to cost you $2500 or more. An exhaust brake $800 to $1000. A serious 48RE rebuild by one of the transmission builders will cost you around $6500 or more. Airbags several hundred. By the time you have spent enough money to allow you to cobble together a truck that can marginally tow the trailer you plan to tow you will have spent $10k and will still have a marginal truck.

Again, its your money, your decision.

 

[Harlacher]

I hate to Be a smart a. but I always love the goody too shoes who pop up with the implication that you will automatically be in legel problems if you have a problem if over factory tow ratings. Hundreds and perhaps thousands have been towing over factory ratings since the beginning of trailering. I have not heard of one legal case directly attributed to being over factory ratings. The one thing that should be held legally responsible is common sense. Not much of that is used these days. I feel a dually is much more stable for hauling heavy. And the biggest safety factor is having an exhaust brake and the best trailer brakes and controller you can get. The other common sense factor is driving defensively giving plenty of space between you and the idiot in front of you. I have towed a 20,000 Teton with a 3500 dually without any issues but I was also a vary defensive driver.

Brian

The question was asked because I tow over the limit and wonder what would happen if I ever got in a wreck. Would I be at fault no matter what because of the overweight? Goody two shoes does not fit in this case. Sounds like you are a little worried about the load you are pulling. Safe or not I would hate to lose everything I owned to some lawyer.

 

[Wertles]

Thanks Harvey. I know you have many more miles under your belt than I and appreciate your wisdom. I do plan on a new dually soon but it just didn't work out for this year. When I went shopping the first time, the 3500 dually still wasn't rated to tow the trailer at full capacity although we all know it is would do it much better than a SRW. Listening to all on this site, I knew it was only a matter of time before Dodge stepped up to the plate and increased power. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a truck I thought within a year would be more powerful. The tow ratings don't mean a lot to me. If they did, a Chevy would be in my driveway and we all know what a mistake that would be.

I still have one year of warrenty on the truck and it's paid off so 4-5 thousand was easy to put into the truck for a year or two and wait till the ratings went up. It just so happens that halfway through building my truck up, they increased the ratings. Had I not had money already invested, I would be ordering the new one right now. It is a 3500, not a 2500. I would not even bring the trailer home ten miles with a 2500 although some will disagree. Unfortunately, living in NY we can never really keep vehicles more than 7 years due to the salt. I had the Ziebart rust protection and placed on my truck before I took delivery and have unlimited car washes at Delta Sonic which is used every time I go out. I still found my paint starting to bubble over the wheel wells last week. If this were a new truck I would absolutely be putting a new tran, exhaust brake and all the upgrades however with the plan to trade in next year or so, it seems doesn't seem smart to be putting more money into the truck that I will never see back. I am not looking for more power with a Smarty Jr. It would be nice but if I go slower, I'll be safer.

We actually got the toy hauler not to haul toys but for the queen size bunk beds back back there. I don't believe for the next few years I will be any where near 18K, closer to 15-16K but I will weigh once we get the trailer. Our current trailer is about 12K loaded and I feel very safe pulling it on my stock truck. As my boys get older, there will be toys to haul and higher weights.

The purpose of this thread was really to inform all that you couldn't order off a new truck yet, not start a debate whether or not my truck can pull it. There are many threads on this site that cover that topic and get very heated. I don't want to start another one of those. Sorry if it came off that way. I was just dissapointed that Ram was advertising a truck on TV that you can't go and order. Poor marketing in my eyes. I did get excited during the commercial during the Datona 500 and that's what made me go to the dealer Monday. I had all intentions of buying one. The impulse has passed... for now.

 

[HBarlow]

The question was asked because I tow over the limit and wonder what would happen if I ever got in a wreck. Would I be at fault no matter what because of the overweight? Goody two shoes does not fit in this case. Sounds like you are a little worried about the load you are pulling. Safe or not I would hate to lose everything I owned to some lawyer.

Master Chief,

I spent three years on the road as an RV transporter so I educated myself on DOT regulations.

DOT considers tire carrying capacities, Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR), GVWRs, actual gross combined weight (not ratings), and actual scale weights depending on the situation and license held by the operator. DOT has no clue and no interest in what Dodge said your gross combined weight and towing weight is.

Those numbers are based on the manufacturer's own internal evaluation system, not consistent between manufacturers, and are based on load startability on a grade, ability to reach a certain speed and maintain that speed on a grade, cooling sytem limits in high ambient temps, etc. Engineering stress and performance limits, not weight on the ground limits.

If your truck and trailer are not exceeding the rear axle/rear tire load limits DOT doesn't care what you do as a private citizen or RVer. If you are towing a trailer rated or weighing in excess of 10k and your combined rated weights (GVWR of truck added to GVWR of trailer) exceed 26,000 lbs. AND you are engaged in any commercial activity meaning for hire or for profit, you are required to hold a CDL Class A and comply with all DOT rules. DOT does not care if you gross 30,000 or 40,000 lbs. with a 3500 dually IF you have a CDL "A", do not exceed tire and axle ratings, and comply with all other regulations.

However, having said all that, if you are towing a very large and very heavy fifthwheel or gooseneck trailer with a Ram 2500 or SRW 3500 and fail to stop in time and rear end another motorist or lose control on a curve or grade and cause an accident there may very well be a presumption of overloading, unsafe equipment, and you could and may very well be sued in a court of law. You are NOT automatically at fault but a judge or jury might find you liable.

I simply do not understand why many members buy Ram 2500s or SRW Ram 3500s then decide because the Cummins engine can move the load they can tow an 18,000 lb. trailer. I have towed trailers that heavy and perhaps heavier with a Ram dually when I was paid to do it. I would NEVER chose to do that on my own trailer on a routine basis. I consider it an unsafe load. My 14,000 lb. fifth wheel is all the weight I am willing to tow with my Ram 3500 C&C and I have a built-in exhaust brake function, a BrakeSmart controller, and good Michelin tires on truck and trailer.

Each to his own. As of today, America is still a free country. I can't speak for next week. Keep your eye on the dictator.

 

[AH64ID]

It is a 3500, not a 2500.

There is only 1 part different on your truck and a 2500, the overloads. And on my 3500 SRW the overloads aren't even in play unless I am over the GVWR. It's why many people do things that look crazy on a 2500, just very little different other than paper ratings.



I think you will enjoy pulling with your 06, and look like you'll be setup very well.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks Harvey. I know you have many more miles under your belt than I and appreciate your wisdom. I do plan on a new dually soon but it just didn't work out for this year. When I went shopping the first time, the 3500 dually still wasn't rated to tow the trailer at full capacity although we all know it is would do it much better than a SRW. Listening to all on this site, I knew it was only a matter of time before Dodge stepped up to the plate and increased power. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a truck I thought within a year would be more powerful. The tow ratings don't mean a lot to me. If they did, a Chevy would be in my driveway and we all know what a mistake that would be.
I still have one year of warrenty on the truck and it's paid off so 4-5 thousand was easy to put into the truck for a year or two and wait till the ratings went up. It just so happens that halfway through building my truck up, they increased the ratings. Had I not had money already invested, I would be ordering the new one right now. It is a 3500, not a 2500. I would not even bring the trailer home ten miles with a 2500 although some will disagree. Unfortunately, living in NY we can never really keep vehicles more than 7 years due to the salt. I had the Ziebart rust protection and placed on my truck before I took delivery and have unlimited car washes at Delta Sonic which is used every time I go out. I still found my paint starting to bubble over the wheel wells last week. If this were a new truck I would absolutely be putting a new tran, exhaust brake and all the upgrades however with the plan to trade in next year or so, it seems doesn't seem smart to be putting more money into the truck that I will never see back. I am not looking for more power with a Smarty Jr. It would be nice but if I go slower, I'll be safer.
We actually got the toy hauler not to haul toys but for the queen size bunk beds back back there. I don't believe for the next few years I will be any where near 18K, closer to 15-16K but I will weigh once we get the trailer. Our current trailer is about 12K loaded and I feel very safe pulling it on my stock truck. As my boys get older, there will be toys to haul and higher weights.
The purpose of this thread was really to inform all that you couldn't order off a new truck yet, not start a debate whether or not my truck can pull it. There are many threads on this site that cover that topic and get very heated. I don't want to start another one of those. Sorry if it came off that way. I was just dissapointed that Ram was advertising a truck on TV that you can't go and order. Poor marketing in my eyes. I did get excited during the commercial during the Datona 500 and that's what made me go to the dealer Monday. I had all intentions of buying one. The impulse has passed... for now.

Wertles,

I understand your situation better now.

If I was in your situation I would add a MaxBrake controller, an exhaust brake (Jacobs or Pacbrake), Timbren donuts on the rear of your truck, and monitor rear axle load with the trailer on to ensure you don't exceed about 6k or 6. 5k, whatever your tires are rated for.

 

[Harlacher]

Thanks for the great explanation Master Chief. I have towed up to 11,000 pounds with my 2500, I had an exhaust brake and good tires that were rated for the load. I was just about 2,000 pounds over the max weight limit as set by Dodge. Never felt unsafe just wondered what would happen if I ever got pulled over. I try to always be safe, but at the same time I know I am pushing it.