Triple lock vs. single??

[torkin]

Originally posted by Idaho CTD





Can anyone tell us if any of the triple disk companies sell a transmission without a controller for a high hp truck (500hp+) or at all?



07/17/04 US Motorsports Park, Martin Mi.

TS Performance 01 Dodge 2500-4x Street driven 6300 lbs.

10. 96 ET (new record)

123. 06 MPH (new record)

Sun Coast full billet transmission/ triple disc torque converter



Figure that HP !



Smoop

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by smoop

Originally posted by Idaho CTD

01 Dodge 2500-4x Street driven 6300 lbs.

6300 lbs. That must be stripped for drags. That is one light wieght truck.

 

[JoshPeters]

I don't think Goerends uses a Controler for any of their transmissions.



Josh

 

[DavidTD]

I know SunCoast makes more than one level of fluid efficiency. Saying a SunCoast converter is not efficient or even as efficient as their competition is just not a correct statement. That depends entirely on what you buy from them. I don't like smoke unless I want it.



If I have a 91 or 93% efficient converter, how will it do for temps while idling in traffic? I believe this is one of the reasons the factory unit is so sloppy, to keep temps down. Every tight converter of ANY brand I have seen get hot when sitting still in gear, like in traffic. For everyday I want a balance of efficiency for movement vs rpm. Especially with a 12v. Again a balance is what you look for related to your driving style and needs IMO.



In January I did a test. Dyno'd a stock TC in a 350hp truck. Replaced the TC with a Triple Lock. Expected to see a power loss as I was one that figured the weight would take power. I was surprised, It did not!!! Same power output.



My 12v at 69XX pounds runs 13. 80's here in Atlanta at 430hp, wastegated down to 60 psi boost max. It towed the Garmon Dakota with an estimated total weight (Dakota/trailer) of 7-8k pounds. After 50k miles of this type of work (105k total) including daily traffic, the transmission looked great upon inspection.



Take a 6200 pound truck from 0 - 102 mph in 7 seconds. That is Matt's and Darrens 1/8mile. That is hard on EVERYTHING including the transmission. Jeff runs 1. 4's - 1. 5's sixty foot times. Seen lots of tire shake at times, no breakage. Yes I am talking racing, but racing IS what helps develop products. If it will live in the above conditions, it should live in an easier environment.



So why did I choose what I chose?



1) When you hang around a shop that has been beating on transmission parts since way before you could log onto the internet and talk about it, that currently builds some of the fastest trucks in the country and rarely see a failure since using this product, it's hard to ignore that fact.

2) Because I fortunately had the opportunity to drive many trucks equipped very differently and learned of the ups/downs of each approach for my likeness before I bought.

3) Based on #2 I wanted better than stock fluid coupling but less than some of the "more efficient" units because I was worried about heat in traffic and I wanted more control over the smoke.

4) Wanted strong lock-up and watching Jeff for years lock up as soon as he launches told me this converter was tough.

5) Solid warranty.



I have a Sun Coast 44





They are all good units and light years ahead of a stock unit. If you can, test drive one like you "think" you want in similar conditions as to what you will be in. If it is what you want, buy it. If not, move on to the next. Make sure you compare the same type of truck as the one you have too. In 2000, the Dodge started to lock in 3rd gear. Not so in the earlier 24v's. And the 12v's are a different story all together.





And Smoop - 123. 6 at 7000 pounds comes to 885. 8hp.



And lets add ol' Bill Fletcher to the hauling a$$ and kicking gas 10 second Sun Coast crew.

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Nathan, you know how Bill thinks, and realize that while some out there may be looking at what happend with Opie's truck with glee, the technician part of Bill wanted to see the transmission after it tried to take on the locked sled. You and I both know even moving that thing the foot or so that it did was crazy . It doesnt take a rocket scientist to tell which would lose. Nathan, you have to love Eddies subtle stealth mode philosopy Things must give at their weakest point, you think ? Locked sled vs dodge transmission . We dont take it personally what happened to Opie's truck , but we felt bad for him that a simple mis-communication between the sled operator and the flagman made his 3000 mile each way trip kind of a waste as he wanted to race it. I have heard Bill laughingly ask his customers many times times how come he gets all the lunatics, the other guys need to get some too. You guys know who you are he said, guys wanting to run 700hp + 7400 lb daily driven street trucks and tow ect. . Some of our guys drove over 3000 miles each way, played and drove home. Opie had to hitch a ride with Nathan because he ran into a sled. As for et, i think opie and nathan, fulmer, propuller, even chipstein's just to name a few , can you imagne their trucks with 1000 lbs less like some of the competitor trucks would be scary in the 1/4 mile considering what these guys are laying down now.



Heck Davidtd, if you want to go truck for truck with comparable set ups , Rhonda's 12 Valve, Piers set up DTT transmission long box 4x4 at 467 hp runs over almost a second faster at 12:60 @ 104 , she is not shy and a member here ask her , detuned she runs 12:90 'S .



To the guy that put up the original post , you have to really consider who you want to put your faith in no matter the advice you get . At the end of the day, it is you that has to be confident with whomever you choose because as many opinions as you get once the vendor has your money no ones opinion will help you past that. It will be you and you alone that has to like what you have, and should you need tech help , you will have to rely on their expertise to assist you. Some vendors are expressing opinions in this thread and dont even have their affiliation in their profiles or signatures. It is a tough deal for consumers that are trying to learn when they cannot see the bias.

 

[DavidTD]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay



Heck Davidtd, if you want to go truck for truck with comparable set ups , Rhonda's 12 Valve, Piers set up DTT transmission long box 4x4 at 467 hp runs over almost a second faster at 12:60 @ 104 , she is not shy and a member here ask her , detuned she runs 12:90 'S .

Stefan - I don't think they are comparable then. I weigh 6900 pounds. My truck calculated out to 441hp at a 98mph trap. If Rhonda weighs the same then I calculate 527hp to make 104mph. So where the 467hp comes from I don't know but I can tell you it doesn't calculate out as does every other truck I dyno and then make a pass with.



Aside from that, I'm willing to bet $100 Rhonda will kick my butt on the tree.

 

[Turbo Thom]

Where in the world has this post gone? West verses South. Myself, my truck takes rubber tires. Toyo. Not Cooper nor Goodyear. Still soft and round. My truck still moves well even if I don't use the same tires you do. Why do transmissions have to be different. If you do not like the Sun Coast buy an ATS. Not ATS? Then get a DTT.



Still, I have read a good bit on what makes these trannies go. Has been interesting.



. . Preston. .

 

[JoshPeters]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

To the guy that put up the original post , you have to really consider who you want to put your faith in no matter the advice you get . At the end of the day, it is you that has to be confident with whomever you choose because as many opinions as you get once the vendor has your money no ones opinion will help you past that. It will be you and you alone that has to like what you have, and should you need tech help , you will have to rely on their expertise to assist you. Some vendors are expressing opinions in this thread and dont even have their affiliation in their profiles or signatures. It is a tough deal for consumers that are trying to learn when they cannot see the bias.

Amen to that! I've learned my lesson.



Josh

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

David,

that is what she makes on the dyno . Proven in front of lots of TDR members. She would be telling everybody if she went 500.



This is our exact point, DTT fluid coupling power transfer. It is a nice comparison using both . Just because 2 trucks make the same hp in lock up does not mean that they will run the same et. You want to talk about Fletchers truck, if he was running a system set up like Rhondas he will be in the 9's. We watch him all the time as he races quite a bit locally. He has a free sponsor and we think that is great for him. I know for a fact there is 3 tenths

left in his transmission but we are not offering sponsorship. It takes technology to get it there. smoop/davidtd, when it comes to touting certain trucks as your baddest , be careful . The 2005 race season will bring a lot of surprises .

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by DavidTD

If I have a 91 or 93% efficient converter, how will it do for temps while idling in traffic? I believe this is one of the reasons the factory unit is so sloppy, to keep temps down. Every tight converter of ANY brand I have seen get hot when sitting still in gear, like in traffic.

I get a kick out of this statement every time I hear it. I live in Seattle which had the worst traffic in the union and may still. Either way it is in the top five. When I drive my truck to work the temps NEVER get above 180 in the most awful backups. And most of us know that 180 is nothing. I saw 240 with the stock transmission while pulling a trailer up a logging road in first. I think the highest I have seen my temps since the upgrade was about 185 when I got lost in Vancouver BC during rush hour with a trailer coming home from DTT after the rebuild. I have yet to repeat the climb with the DTT that I did while stock that yielded the 240, yet!



Can't say how the 93 is since I have the 91. These are just my observations.



Hey Steph, I have a ways to go before I am in the same league as the others you mentioned. When I drove in Opie's truck he was spinning the tires in OD at 70.

 

[Bob Wagner]

where the heck is RR? she'e been very quiet lately

 

[DavidTD]

Originally posted by Stefan Kondolay

David,

that is what she makes on the dyno . Proven in front of lots of TDR members. She would be telling everybody if she went 500.



This is our exact point, DTT fluid coupling power transfer. It is a nice comparison using both . Just because 2 trucks make the same hp in lock up does not mean that they will run the same et. You want to talk about Fletchers truck, if he was running a system set up like Rhondas he will be in the 9's. We watch him all the time as he races quite a bit locally. He has a free sponsor and we think that is great for him. I know for a fact there is 3 tenths

left in his transmission but we are not offering sponsorship. It takes technology to get it there. smoop/davidtd, when it comes to touting certain trucks as your baddest , be careful . The 2005 race season will bring a lot of surprises .

So Stefan, are you saying I will pick up 1 second ET with your converter?



I am not touting anything, just stating what I have seen first hand. And 2005 will bring no surprises. I know you and others will debut pro trucks. I can't wait and I'll be glad to see you make record runs. Just wish you could do the same for the guys that have accomplished that this year.

 

[jimk]

Originally posted by Chipstien

I get a kick out of this statement every time I hear it. I live in Seattle which had the worst traffic in the union and may still. Either way it is in the top five. When I drive my truck to work the temps NEVER get above 180 in the most awful backups. And most of us know that 180 is nothing. I saw 240 with the stock transmission while pulling a trailer up a logging road in first. I think the highest I have seen my temps since the upgrade was about 185 when I got lost in Vancouver BC during rush hour with a trailer coming home from DTT after the rebuild. I have yet to repeat the climb with the DTT that I did while stock that yielded the 240, yet!



Can't say how the 93 is since I have the 91. These are just my observations.



Hey Steph, I have a ways to go before I am in the same league as the others you mentioned. When I drove in Opie's truck he was spinning the tires in OD at 70.

My friend told me that he has seen 240 out of his DDT when he pulled his trailer. I may be wrong but I think that is what he told me out of his cooling line . I wont to be sure I understand, that a stock converter will heat up more at idle that a 91 % converter in gear not moving?

I have a stock converter so I wont to keep it going as long as I can. I have pulled in second gear in stock fluid coupling an that is no fun for sure for 20 miles. I am only trying to learn how to make the transmission live for a while more. Thanks JimK

 

[Chipstien]

I just want to make it clear that in no way am I insinuating that a DTT is going to run cooler than stock. I am sure that with the DTT I would have been hotter then 240 but I didn't have it at the time. When I hit 240 with the stock trans I was going up a VERY VERY STEEP and winding 2 rut road with a 25 ft. trailer in 1st at about 5 MPH and had been doing that for about 45 minutes straight. Needless to say that is a recipe for high temps.



The purpose of the above post was to only to point out what my trans temp run under normal condition during Seattle rush hour. What is strange are those that think 200 degrees is when the transmission melts down.



Jim, a more efficent converter *will* run hotter, not cooler. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[DavidTD]

Now let me really cloud this issue. It would seem to me that tighter fluid will result in higher temps sitting still in traffic but result in less when pulling in fluid. Would that be a correct statement?

 

[Chipstien]

You would think so because sitting in traffic the converter would be fighting against the brakes.

 

[RDLeader]

Don't forget, Gorenend Bros. They have tight fluid coupling and a triple disk lockup and a lifetime warranty. Did I mention cheap prices also? Seriously talk to them or drive a truck with this new converter installed... ... ... ... . Brian

AMEN!



Dave G. rocks!





Roman

 

[c-hawk]

Originally posted by DavidTD

Now let me really cloud this issue. It would seem to me that tighter fluid will result in higher temps sitting still in traffic but result in less when pulling in fluid. Would that be a correct statement?

I believe this to be correct.



I have had my DTT up to 210 in the hot line while sitting on the terrible nightmare that is the DC beltway.



Racing, towing 13k gooseneck, ANYTHING i've ever done, as long as the truck is moving, it's never been above 180 hot line. Typically it runs 140-150 in the summer, and 100-120 in the winter.



Tighter fluid coupling shears the fluid more when you aren't moving than a loose converter does (i. e. builds more heat while in gear but not moving. It's transfering more power that can't move the truck because it's being held by the brakes), but a LOT less when you are moving compared to a loose converter. (i. e. larger % of the motors power is being sent to the rear wheels, not wasted in the inefficency of the tc and turned into heat)

 

[Stefan Kondolay]

Seems reasonable to me that if you know you have a hard working tc and you have prolonged stops, slipping in to neutral is a simple solution . Last time I checked most trucks come with a neutral selector.

 

[Snow man]

I plowed snow a full winter with the DTT 89 TC, and a full winter with the DTT 91 race TC, I didnt notice much difference,neither one ran hot,both ran cooler than the stock TC plowing snow. I keep the truck moving, i dont sit in gear for more than a few seconds. This yr i pushed 2 plows over 12ft wide, at 13000 lbs and the trans never went over 180 in the pan peak. the average temp was 145-160 in the pan with only the front cooler next to the rad,since i removed the engine mounted cooler for the twins.