Truck died

[Coolslice]

Well, I mentioned about a month ago that I thought something was up with my truck. I was coming around a corner and it just lost power but it fired right back up and was on it's way. It has been fine every since.



Today I was tooling down a small road at about 25 mph and my truck died again. :{ ( I have a FP gauge BTW which was reading normal pressure) This time was different because it just started running worse and worse. Then came the smoke. It was blowing CLOUDS of gray smoke, so much so that a guy two blocks over came to investigate.



Naturally I shut it down and parked it. I called the dealership and they came and towed it away but won't get a chance to look at it til monday. I did notice that the injector ticking (I think) seemed a little louder than normal.



Any clues as to what it could be?? Stuck injector maybe? It only has 33K miles.



I have been on the fence about getting rid of it for something that got better mileage and I think I may go ahead and do that if and when it gets fixed.

 

[JRG]

Mine has been acting up also, just hasn't left me stranded... yet. More info ie: What was the temp outside, how long had it been running (long run time?), how has the power been lately, milage been lately, any smoke before this (on take-off?), what have you been running the TST @, did you get a chance to see if there was any fuel in the oil?



JRG

 

[Coolslice]

Mine has been acting up also, just hasn't left me stranded... yet. More info ie: What was the temp outside, how long had it been running (long run time?), how has the power been lately, milage been lately, any smoke before this (on take-off?), what have you been running the TST @, did you get a chance to see if there was any fuel in the oil?



JRG

Temp outside was about 75. The operating temp was normal.

I had just driven it about 15 miles prior, mostly at 60 mph with a few stop lights. The TST was on 1/1 and I usually run it on 2/1 or 2/2. No codes or check engine light even after the mishap.



Mileage and power have been normal. I did add half a bottle of Lucas injector cleaner at last fill-up.



I change my oil every 3500 miles and change the fuel filter at every oil change. I did check the oil last week at it was at the normal level. I looked at it today while waiting on the tow truck and it was still in the normal range.



This truck has been BABIED since new and this is the very first vehicle I have ever had that left me stranded.

 

[JRG]

I'm begining to think a bad relief valve or cp3. No fuel in the oil tends to mean the injectos are OK. You noted the FP was good, would't think the LP was out. I want to see what the dealer says as I'm am making an app soon for my issue.



JRG

 

[Reb.B]

sounds like bad fuel has eroded the check ball seat in the injector. Brady @ II has been warning people of this. When this happens, all the fuel go into one injector and lower the rail pressure on all the injectors. That one injector will flow fuel through it all the time and you will have massive amounts of grey smoke.

 

[Coolslice]

How much "bad fuel" does it take to erode the check ball seat? I have never had any of the normal issues associated with bad fuel to the best of my knowledge.



Also, is this the same codition that people are having in which one of the pistons gets fried or the crankcase fills with fuel?

 

[Reb.B]

as i know, any thing above 3 microns will do it. We need to get 2 micron filters. Dodge went from 10 micron to 7 micron, but i don't think its enough. Brady and Bosche have done testing with bad fuel and the time it takes to wipe out an injector is scary. This is a very real problem and we need to address it soon in the common rail diesel circle. There is a reason why a lot of injectors that come in with few miles are bad cores and a lot of cp3 pumps are way below spec.

 

[Reb.B]

THIS IS FROM BRADY SEVERAL WEEKS AGO



Common Rail Fuel System



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I talked to a few top executive Bosch reps yesterday. One of which was the go to guy in service that is involved in field testing and failure analysis. There were a few things that I have been suspecting with the Common Rail Fuel System. Since we have been servicing these systems in house (CP3 pumps & injectors), we have been noticing failures of the injector body (cracking) and check ball seats (erosion). I had to ask direct questions to get answers. The first thing I'll cover is, they have done testing on filtration on 3rd gen Dodge. They used a 5 micron test media that is very fine steel shot. They placed 1 teaspoon full of media in the fuel and then ran the engine with a 10 micron rated filter. At 20 minutes the engine started running bad and missing etc. They then changed the filter to a 7 micron rated filter and again placed 1 teaspoon of 5 micron media in the fuel. It ran for 35 minutes this time before running bad and missing. They then changed to a 5 micron rated filter and again placed 1 teaspoon of media in the fuel, this time it ran 45 minutes before showing the same missing and bad running. Next they changed to a 2 micron rated filter and this time they found that the engine could run for an extended period of time with no failure with the same 1 teaspoon of media. They are saying that we need to run 2 micron filters to keep our fuel systems safe from contamination.



Next we talked about injector bodies cracking. They say that this is caused from pressure spikes. They likened the cause and effect to a tin or aluminum can that with pressure in and out (flexing) the can will start to crack and break. They said that running at a higher pressure alone is not as bad, but pressure spiking is very bad. Next we talked about check balls and seats and what is causing the erosion of the seat. They said that with the high pressure and velocity of the fuel as it passes through the injector check ball and seat, the contamination in the fuel will sand blast the seat and erode it away.



We have been seeing a lose of 60% of our injector cores to these problems and feel that we must educate the public to the reasons for failure. They also said that they tested various filters for consistency in micron rating and saw some filters that should have been at 10 micron actually test at 20+ micron. We at Industrial Injection will be advising all our customers to upgrade there filter/fuel systems to 2 micron ASAP. Thanks, Brady 1-800-955-0476

 

[Coolslice]

So as I understand it, the HPCR Cummins is doomed under current filtration standards?



I really don't want to deal with this again and I feel like I shouldn't be dealing with it now at 33k. At any rate, I really appreciate all the advice and I will post what the dealer says as soon as I find out something.



I have already made up my mind to rid myself of this truck when I get it back and go back to gas for various reasons. I love the Cummins engine, but I think they are starting to become a little too finicky for my liking. They do last forever, but it just seems like anymore that they are having some new issues and what that translates into for me is an insecure feeling on the road. I just don't want to constantly be worrying about bad fuel, bad pumps, and bad injectors.

 

[mlewis73]

So as I understand it, the HPCR Cummins is doomed under current filtration standards?



I really don't want to deal with this again and I feel like I shouldn't be dealing with it now at 33k. At any rate, I really appreciate all the advice and I will post what the dealer says as soon as I find out something.



I have already made up my mind to rid myself of this truck when I get it back and go back to gas for various reasons. I love the Cummins engine, but I think they are starting to become a little too finicky for my liking. They do last forever, but it just seems like anymore that they are having some new issues and what that translates into for me is an insecure feeling on the road. I just don't want to constantly be worrying about bad fuel, bad pumps, and bad injectors.

I feel your pain. I'm starting to get very nervous about my new truck--and it isn't even HERE yet!



Gonna be prepared to go back to a '91ish F-350 or a '97ish Ram or F-350...

 

[100 Proof]

So where does one get a 2 micron filter? Or is this one of those items made from Unobtainium?



100 Proof

 

[JCleary]

So where does one get a 2 micron filter? Or is this one of those items made from Unobtainium?



100 Proof

Industrial Injection has them available that fit on the full FASS system. I got mine last week

 

[Coolslice]

So the factory filtration system is NOT capable of filtering the fuel well enough to prevent damage to the injectors? That's just great.

 

[KParsons]

will the stock lift pump handle the 2 micron filter. if the truck is bone stock?

 

[Reb.B]

05-06 i think will handle a 2 micron filter. 03-04 will not and it should be changed any way. Brady is selling the 2 micron filters, but they are on the suction side and that is too small on the suction in my opion. Brady says they work perfect. Brady is helping me find a 2 micron on the pressure side.

 

[Coolslice]

The verdict is in- Bad lift pump.



They had me ready to go in 3 hours thankfully. As it turns out I guess my FP gauge is worthless. Apparently it measures pressure but not volume, or at least that's what I was told.

 

[bcpalmer]

Coolslice,



Is your lift pump on the filter housing or in the tank?

 

[Coolslice]

Coolslice,



Is your lift pump on the filter housing or in the tank?

It was on the filter, now I assume it's in the tank.



I've learned that a clean fuel filter means very little with respect to the LP life span. I've changed mine every 3K miles since new (waste of money) and my LP still took an early dump. I know a guy who has not changed his in 35k miles and his LP is still going strong.



I just don't feel safe driving this truck after this. There was no warning, even w/ gauges. When it goes you're dead in the water and now that it's in the tank it's a major repair. I know lots of guys on here have had them go 100k+ but around here in real life it seems that just about everyone I know with a CTD has had several issues with the LP.

 

[yycguy]

Well I was out driving yesterday and just hit the freeway and then sputter sputter then running again at low throttle input, I did look down and fuel pressure was 0 psi. I called a fellow TDR member on my cell phone and checked if he still had the DD lift pump assembly that he had recently taken off in favor of a different system. He did, so I limped my truck down there and did a quick retro fit to the DD setup. It runs fine now and pressure is 15 psi. I think I will get a backup pump (carter 4601HP) and though it under the seat. Once again Thanks "Jeff_K". He was just ready to leave in three hours to Alaska (work) and made time to help me out, what would one do without TDR members like him.

Joel