Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) TSB on Oil filters

[Pit Bull]

How can DC void warranty coverage on owners that use a filter not on the approved list, when they have not sent out a notice to every customer of record informing them of this list and the problem of using a non-approved filter?



I have a friend that has a 2000 CTD and gets his oil changed at Wally world. He had a Fram filter on his truck. I sent him the TSB information so he could correct it and save his engine. If I wasn't so anal he never would of known about the TSB.



Does not seem like DC is handling this correctly.

 

[Dkevdog]

Doesn't the manual specify thatthey reccomend you use Mopar filters and lubricants? I thought I read something about that... ..... At any rate, I guess they are putting the burden of knowledge on you. I have seen the damage from using "unapproved" filters first hand, and it ain't pretty:{ !



Kev

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Pit Bull, mailings are enormously expensive, plus I believe there is mention of this in the owner's manual (not sure though, I don't have it handy). Unfortunately thousands are in the same boat as your buddy. . . they're in the dark about filters, lift and injection pumps unless they proactively seek information on their own such as going to TDR, or are clued in by a friend or someone else with a CTD. Personally I don't think it's too tough to find out info on your vehicle and how to treat it right if you really care about it.



Vaughn

 

[Thomas]

Why should D/C be responsible for the failure of some other manufacturer's replacement part?



My reading of TSB 09-004-01 suggests that there is no blanket voiding of warrantees. It seems to me the TSB only comes into play when there is a failure that is caused by the oil filter.



Perhaps by having this TSB we are even protected in the event of a failure of a listed, but non-Mopar, filter

 

[krs]

The '01 owner's manual reads "Only a high quality filter cartridge should be used to assure most efficient service. A MOPAR oil filter cartridge is a cartridge of this type and is recommended".



That is verbatim, and does not specify that the OEM filter be used. Is it the burden of the owner to know that Fram filters (for example) have a record of questionable reliability? I can't see how DC could support that when the manufacturer is a long standing participant in the market with a good reputation in the general public's view.

 

[whiteknight]

The TSB specifically states "Please share this with your customers. " This bulletin covers models from 1989-2001. I have had my 1996 to the dealer and so has my dad had his 2001 after this bulletin was released and they never once said anything about this TSB to either of us.



But when my dad had his truck towed to the dealer because it blew the oil out of it, they looked to see what brand filter it had and because it had a fleetguard filter they would not warranty it. Then when they discovered that fleetguard was an approved filter then they tried blaming the filter itself.



My dad's truck was down for 2 1/2 months before they finally decided to replace the engine.



My wife and I were even told when we bought our new Intrepid this past November by the salesman that if we brought it in for an engine failure due to a lubrication problem and it had any filter on it other than a Mopar, it would not be repaired under warranty. A coworker of my wife was told the same thing by yet another dealer.



The reason that can do that a get away with it is because they know most people don't have the time or the money to fight them on it. However I have been thinking about filing a complaint with the State Attorney General's office about it.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Thomas

Why should D/C be responsible for the failure of some other manufacturer's replacement part?

Thomas, you are right. They are not responsible for a failed oil filter and I guess it is good of them to let us know through a TSB that they recommend certain filters. If nothing else they are missing a sales opportunity for their service departments by not promoting this issue and recommending you come to their store and get the service done. Fear, uncertainty and doubt, can sell a product.



Another concern I would have is that if you had a engine failure, you would be deep into the expenses by the time they discovered it was caused by a bad oil filter. Kinda feel sorry for the people who are not as smart as we are and don't belong to the TDR

 

[illflem]

The way whitenight's parents were treated even with an approved Fleetguard filter makes me think I'd rather take my chances with a non-approved filter just so another company other than DC is carrying the warranty. Most filter manufacturers will pay the bill if their product fails and does damage with little hassle. On the same note this also compels them to produce a product that isn't going to fail.

 

[Blair]

The filter media would have had to have come apart and plug a piston cooling nozzle to be blamed for a failure. I don't think I would want to be trapped in the middle of trying to get fram to pay because DC won't for a very expensive engine. I have a customer who leaked out about 50 gallons of fuel from a split filter and the filter company is trying not to pay. I would stick to the filters on the approved list. It was unfortunate that the uneducated dealer in question was looking for any reason to deny warranty on that particular truck. That dealer might be in bad standing with DC for warranty claims and is trying to keep his claims down, but the consumer shouldn't have to pay the price.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'm surprised to hear about DC reps trying to not honor warranty because of the use of a Fleetguard filter - shucks, I buy mine right from Cummins West in Sacramento...

 

[RFerguson]

Don't mean to be ignorant, but where does one find this approved list? This is the 1st I've heard of it.

 

[Dkevdog]

The TSB was shown to me (Heck- I was given a copy) AT the dealership by the service manager. I guess that makes my loca dealership and service dept better than most.



Bill- as for the manufacturer standing behind their filter in the event of a faileure... ... ... . I hop you can hold your breath longer than I can... ... . They will have a fleet of lawyers looking for the way out just as fast as DC or anyone else would. And what are supposed to do while the issue is battled in the courts? Rent a Geo Metro:-laf . It's a sad reality of the times.



Kev

 

[Dkevdog]

Originally posted by rferguson

Don't mean to be ignorant, but where does one find this approved list? This is the 1st I've heard of it.

Oil Filter TSB

 

[illflem]

Kev, I've known two people who have had their non-Cummins engines replaced by Fram much faster than whitenight's folks with only one call and no court. In both cases the Fram rep came right to them within a week.

I'm not saying anyone should use a filter that may damage their engine, just that other manufacturers stand behind their warranties better than DC.

 

[Dkevdog]

Originally posted by illflem

Kev, I've known two people who have had their non-Cummins engines replaced by Fram much faster than whitenight's folks with only one call and no court. In both cases the Fram rep came right to them within a week.

Admittedly- that is pretty darn good. I know of a Wix case and another Fram case that was not handled so kindly. Bottom line- I agree that Whiteknights parents were treated horribly, and it's ashame that the little guy is at the mercy of a large Corporations Legal Dept.

 

[sag2]

I think you might be talking about two different failures here. I know of several Cummins that scored #6 (the text book filter failure) and when the technician called STAR, they were advised to replace the engine and return it complete with filter attached. DC and Cummins do a joint tear down and if the piston cooler nozzle(s) are plugged, they attempt to recover from the filter manufacturer.

WhiteKnight's parents truck sounds like a gasket failure. And judging from the numerous posts about this truck, they are quite rare.

Now comes the sticky part, and the part that was probably not handled so well. The filter that was on the truck when it failed was not a MOPAR part. (now settle down and stay with me).

Yes it is an approved part, and yes it is nearly identical to a Cummins and MOPAR part (reference previous TDR filter comparisons) but never the less, it is/was not supplied nor warranted by DC. From a strict legal standpoint, DC had no obligation to handle this under the warranty.

Now in a perfect world, DC should have got together with Cummins/Fleetguard and worked out the problem between them just like in the plugged cooler nozzles. The hope is not to place the customer between the responsible parties (assuming the customer did everything correctly). We all do a great job of second guessing what we would have done in every instance, but unless we are there, that is not so useful.

After reading all the posts about WhiteKnights parents situation, I personally think there is a much bigger lesson here than oil filters, stealers, and manufacturers. The bigger lesson is to handle difficult situations with calm persistence and patience (they had more than me). It is obvious they were raised to respect others, and in doing so, they sure gained my respect.

 

[John Berger]

What I find interesting, relative to White Knight's situation is that Fleetguard makes the Mopar filters for our trucks, correct? I know it doesn't work this way in the real world, but you think this would be a no-brainer on the part of the vehicle manufacturer, even in an isolated event. I've used Fleetguard and Amsoil filters on my truck, in the past. I will only use Fleetguard in the future. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Amsoil filters, but the Fleetguard filters are relatively the same as far as filtration capability and holding capacity and that makes it hard to justify the price difference. I change the oil filter at 5000 mile intervals. Oil analysis convinced me that I wasn't seeing better filtration with the Amsoil filter. It was good, just not better.

 

[MPatrick]

Oil Filter Number

I just bought a Fleetguard filter yesterday at Cummins SE and the Guy at the counter said the old number I had (LF 3894) was superseded by LF 3959. The latter number does not show up on the TSB for approved Lube Filters. What's going on? Should I take it back and search for the approved numbers?

 

[THerman]

Originally posted by sag2

WhiteKnight's parents truck sounds like a gasket failure.

I too read all the posts... but from what I read DC was saying it was the filter failure, when it turned out to be a oil pump / regulator failure... .



In other words... . the engine detroyed the filter... not the other way around...



This would be a hard battle for anyone... but I agree persistence payed off. In either case, it was not HIS fault... I know I wouldn't have liked being in the middle of these two.

 

[Thomas]

THerman - Ditto on your post.



MPatrick - From the Fleetguard site:



"Fleetguard part information for LF3894 is listed below.



Part: LF3894

Manufacturer: FLEETGUARD

Part Type: Lube, Spin-On



Largest OD: 93. 47 mm (3. 68 in)

Overall Height: 176. 02 mm (6. 93 in)

Thread Size: 1-16 UN-2B





Additional Information:

AGCO 72516556

Upgrade of

LF3885 Stratapore Media

LF3935 Stratapore Media Upgrade

LF3959"



Sounds like the guy at the counter has it backwards.