Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Turbo Fit

[Forrest Nearing]

yes, you will...



these days most of your aftermarket performance turbos are based on the S300 frame...



so when I say 62mm S300 variant, I mean an S300 with a 62mm compressor wheel... the 65mm turbine wheel is standard... that's what comes on the S300G, but aftermarket companies have been putting 71mm turbine wheels in their turbos also.



the BD Super B "Special" is a 64mm compressor and a 71mm turbine wheel.



I think you would be very happy with a 62mm compressor and a 65mm turbine. Industrial Injection and HTT are the two biggest sellers of these turbos for our trucks.



you should be able to get a 62/65 for similar money to what you're paying for that Super B. Now, if you want a Super B (aka S300G) I've got a guy you need to talk to. He is a Borg Warner and gets master dealer prices. He might be able to swing you a good deal on that s300g as it is a BW "factory" piece and not a custom deal.

 

[hsmith]

Forrest, wish I had some of your turbo knowledge. I am happy with the "B", but would be happier if I had saved a couple hundred bucks.
You say it does not support high boost. Not a problem here but it comes gated at 38 psi. Plenty for me but you must be talking about higher numbers.

 

[Harlacher]

I also wish I knew more about the details of these turbo. However, I don't and therefore need the backing of a company like BD. I do believe BD worked with Borg Warner in developing the turbos for our trucks, but beyond that, they support what they sell. So, I have decided to buy my turbo from them. I do not have the knowledge to make changes, as I am sure people like Forrest, Snoking, and a lot of other people who add to this forum do. Forrest would not be there if I did have a problem; I know BD will.



When I first started upgrading my truck in 1999 I bought a low stall torque converter from BD. A friend and I installed it and the stall speed was not in specs, we called BD and they sent another converter, got here in two days, we installed it, and same thing, low stall speed. Called BD and they couldn't believe that they had sent two bad converters and told us to take the truck to a shop where another converter would be waiting along with a BD trained mechanic.



BD was now on their third converter, shipping cost, and a lot of valuable home office time. The problem was a lack of knowledge on my part. I had a TST Power Max installed, more HP than a stock truck, therefore, different stall speed on the converter. BD did not charge me a dime for all the trouble I put them through.



That is why I was so surprised with the 3. 5 inch exhaust brake not fitting their turbo. More research on my part, with the help of the people who join these discussions and I find out it is the way they are engineered and nothing can be done about it. Not a BD mistake.



To get the knowledge that Forrest, Snoking and the other have, takes time, a lot of expensive mistakes, that I cannot afford to make, and a lot more mechanical understanding than I have.



I, where some don't, need the backing of a great company like BD. They have been very fair with me and I do need their support.



Paul

 

[hsmith]

I fully agree, Paul. I am satisfied with the unit and their support. I bought this turbo to cool the egt's as I tow a heavy tt. Did the job too.

Since then, I have gone from the #11 plate to #10 and from stock sticks to DDP II's. Now I am back to needing a bit more air. Can't leave well enough alone I guess.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I totally understand looking to them for support, and I know where you're coming from.



I'm just saying you can get the exact same turbo in the same Borg Warner box it's going to come in for less



as for "not supporting high boost", I was referring to the Garrett ball bearing turbos. I believe they're only rated for like 40psi

 

[SnoKing]

Paul, just remember if you are going to tow and have fun both, you need a turbo that comes on at low RPM's. Having a turbo the is its best at 2800 RPMs is not a good towing turbo. One that comes on at 1800-2000 is a good towing turbo. I do not know about the BD turbo, but make sure it will cover both of your bases. Someone said they had a PDR35 in the garage. Maybe they will let you try it!



SNOKING

 

[Forrest Nearing]

the S300G will come on just fine. Should spool like stock. it's only a 57mm inducer... the PDR35 is a 58mm inducer, but the S300 wheel moves more air.



it's a 65mm turbine exducer and has dual wastegate ports. It's far superior to the PDR35

 

[hsmith]

Thanks Forrest,



That would be the "B", correct? That is why it is gated at 38 psi. Like I said, that is plenty boost for me.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

the B should support more than 38psi, but that's a good boost level

 

[Harlacher]

I expect to get about 45 with it.



Snoking, thanks for keeping me on track. I am still keeping in mind that I will want to tow with this truck later, I am keeping the current set-up I have to go back to, with a PDR35. The Super B from BD is the first step in Twins. It is my understanding that to get the best of both worlds, twins is the way to go. The 4" Exhaust brake will be next. If the twins don't do it I will sell them and the 4 inch brake (for one hell of a loss I am sure) But, it is only money.



I don't want to have to tear into the engine to put on new head bolts/gaskets etc. I have been told that 50 pounds boost is the max that the stock head bolts and gasket will take. (50 is pushing it)



Thanks for all the great information Forrest, I went to the hotroddiesel site and watched a couple of the films on the red race truck. Impressive for what little has been done to it. That is kind of where I want to be and still tow.



We will see, the BD Super B should be here by the end of the week.



Has anyone had any good luck with Transmission coolers. BD has one, are there other good ones out there.



I wanted to go with the Horton fan clutch but they are no longer sold. Very expensive when they were sold.



Thanks again my fellow TDRers. The information I have got so far has really helped. I hope I can help someone else someday.



Paul

 

[SnoKing]

So what are you going to do for injectors to match that much air????? I see you sliding down that slippery slope. Boost does not make power, fuel does!



As Bill K. at DTT says, I see a lot of really nice running trucks like your's Chris, and then they just keep going until they are hardly streetable!!!



After a few broken parts and the cost to put it back on the road you may wish that you had just turned the box down to tow and been happy with what you currently have none.



Do you let your wife read any of this???????



SNOKING

 

[Harlacher]

No wife, Devorced March of this year. I have the ISB injectors from BD. I am just catching up with the fuel I already have.



I do hear you, I will not get that far. This truck is my primary transportation, (i have a little Saturn go-kart also) and I am going to keep it streetable. I may, like you said, end up going back to this set-up. I am keeping everything so I can.



I see me loosing a lot of money if things get out of control, money I can't afford. But, life is full of learning, mistakes, I told you so, and oh Sh!ts. I have always wanted to be able to learn from others mistakes but I am just to bull-headed. Your advice is valuable and I am listening. I am preparing for the day when I change back, I would not have without your advice. This way the loss will be much smaller if I do blow it.



Thanks, the super-B is in route I will let you know.

 

[hsmith]

Thanks Forrest, that is what I wanted to hear. Don't think I will need more boost, maybe more air in the future. Now for the work on the AFC?

 

[Forrest Nearing]

swing on down to Alvin, and I'll cook you up an AFC

 

[Harlacher]

The Super B is Gated at 38 psi? Does that mean that is the highest boost I can get?



I am unsure of how the power lock and torque lock hook up with the turbo. BD says it is pretty straight forward. The micro-switch on the gas pedal will come into play also, according to BD.



I get somewhere close to 35 boost now, I hope to gain 10 pounds and lots of cooling air. Am I thinking straight?

 

[SnoKing]

At 35 lbs is not a stock HX35 starting to make hot air? SNOKING

 

[Harlacher]

????

At 35 lbs is not a stock HX35 starting to make hot air? SNOKING

Snoking I don't understand what you are saying. I have the stock turbo, but HO Injection pump, ISB injectors, Edge comp, 4 inch exhaust, FASS, ATS 3 piece exhaust manifold, TAG, and a few other things. When I nail it, I get somewhere between 30 and 35 PSI. Hard to determine, I know I get above 30 sometimes.

 

[SnoKing]

When one has a smaller turbo and restrictions in the exhaust system, the turbo at higher boost level begins to heat the air going into the engine. Diesels like cool air! So when you get beyond the map that the turbo was designed to, more boost out of it is not necessarily a good deal. Just removing the current small turbo mounted brake you have and openning the exhaust to 4" will increase the cooling. Also what you are running on the intake side? That will effect cooling of the air going into the engine.



Search - read - search - read. Call - talk -call - talk.



SNOKING

 

[Harlacher]

AFE Intake filter.



I hear what you are saying and I understand most of it. Right now I am getting a lot of boost but it is not usable because of the high temps. The high temps are a result of not enough air for the amount of fuel I am pouring in, it is also why I get all the black smoke.



Because of the high amount of fuel and no place for it to go, the back pressure is actually causing higher boost and higher temperature but not useable power, in fact, in this case the power could be doing damage.



With the added air of the new turbo and increasing the size of the exhaust by getting rid of the 3. 5 exhaust brake should give me more "usable" air.



What I did not understand is why I shouldn't be getting in the area of a 35 PSI boost reading on the gage? The gage cannot determine between good and bad boost. I might not be getting 35 psi working boost pressure but it is there.



I do read and research but find way too often that there is so much information out there, I get confused. Maybe the reason for that confusion is that I forget about as much as I learn.



A lot of experts give some great opinions but quite often they do not agree with each other. Both you and Forrest have given me great advice and all of it is correct. However, I would have to go in two separate directions if I did not form my own opinions. I have been trying to merge the two different directions with what I know, and what I am willing to spend, to learn more.



I guess we have come full circle here, back to eating my lunch. I am going to try while staying off the slippery slope as much as I can. As you can see with what I have already done I have been there some. Upgrading these trucks turns into a very personal choice, after listening, and learning. While doing the circle I have learned a lot, and hope that others who are considering a costly upgrade are getting some value from these post.



I cannot thank you enough for all the information you have given me. I am using it even it doesn't appear that way. A lot of the reading, research, and talk can be done right here on the TDR.



Thanks again,



Paul

 

[Joe Mc]

It's not as easy as you hope to make up your mind once you have all the information - #@$%!

:-laf