Turbo-Lag

[WOWZY]

I was just wondering. The only problem that I've read in those who drag race their trucks is no boost pressure right off the line.

What's to keep someone from just running a tank of compressed AIR to the intake and regulated to about 10-15psi to have the boost required for a good launch? I would think that it would give the turbo enough time to catch up before the regulated tank pressure would drop off.

We have some vari-flow solenoid valves at work that work off a sending unit kinda like our throttle position sensor. If you just had a big compressor tank and a big enough Vari-Flow, you wouldn't even need a turbo at all for drag strip passes. You would have instant boost at launch and inject as much fuel as you want. It probably would be a calibration nightmare though.

Sorry if this seems way out there.
<font color=blue>

------------------
'99 2500HD Quad Cab 4x4, Intense Blue Pearlcoat, Fully loaded w/Agate leather interior, 5-speed, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Skyjacker Leveling kit, Heckethorn Nitro 9000 shocks w/dual End to End steering stabilizers, 35x12. 50x16. 5 BFG/AT KO's on 9. 75x16. 5 Eagle 589 Aluminum Wheels, 9004 Cool Blue's, Silencer Ring removed, Fog Lights relay pulled, No muffler, No resonator, 4" straight pipe, Northwest Customs Stainless Steel Rocker Panels, Steel Horse Stainless Steel Nerf Bars, K&N Filter,Custom POWEREDGE W/HOT Programs 60/80/100+HP, Grover Air Horns, Autometer Ultra-Lite Gauges.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Awhile back, i guess maybe 8 or 9 years, i heard of a product called a "Turbo-dyne" while i was in diesel school. What it was, was an electric motor equipped with a clutch that mounted in the inlet of the compressor side of the turbocharger. What it did was engage at lower rpm's to speed up the turbo to eliminate "Turbo-Lag". Once the engine was producing enough RPM's to spin the turbo fast enough, it would dissengage. I know this idea works since the Diesel engines in Locomotives use this same idea albeit with a direct gear drive off the engine and an RPM actuated clutch. It seemed like a great idea for trucks and they had said it would soon be on lots of over the road trucks. But i have NEVER heard of it again. Has anybody else?

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

I've given this one some thought #ad

if you could prssureise the turbo even a little would help alot with total boost, or at least air density. Its kind of like hot days compaired to cool, or altitude is really more like it.
you would need alot of air to make a differece for say 15 seconds.

 

[Bent6]

EMDIESEL - I remember hearing about the Turbo-dyne system. Sounded like a good theory but I doubt it worked well on high boost applications. Wonder whatever became of them?

As far as the turbo lag issue, we have used CO2 injected into the compressor housing of the turbo to aid in spool up. This would be of little to no use anywhere but on a dragstrip though.

------------------
Will - -- email address removed -- - 98. 5 3500, black, 24v, auto, 4. 10, fold-away gooseneck hitch, Poweredge EZ w/ boost elbow, K&N Filter, Isspro 50# Boost, EGT (pre-turbo), transmission Temp gauges mounted on A-pillar, & more to come!
38ft United Expressline X-Treme Race Car Hauler weighing in @ 12000# loaded
Other Bad Habit:
'87 Pro-Street Buick Grand National, 272cid Stage II Buick V-6, SINGLE turbo, 1400hp, 1200ft/lbs @ 24# boost
Best 60ft: 1. 11
Best 1/8 mile: 4. 99 @ 142mph
Best 1/4 mile: 7. 70 @ 179mph
And Lookin' For More!!!
So I'm A Turbo Man!
Boost On!

 

[WOWZY]

If you could use the pre-boost tank idea, I think it could possibly shave at least a second off a pass for those using the 3 feet method to get some pre-boost before launching.

 

[Bad340fish]

Don't Forget, No turbo lag will equal TIRE FRY although its fun its worse for your quarter mile times than the lag is. As far as the compressed air idea goes you will need alot of air. Pull one of your intercooler hoses off and start your truck. You will be shocked at the amount of air that it moves just at idle, then rev it a little. A proper attachment and a high idler and you could blow the leaves out of the yard #ad
. Best cure for turbo lag is... I really hate to say this... its its an AUTOMATIC(i feel horrible). That way you can load the motor while your in the beams and then fly out of the hole. My . 02


------------------
Clark
1999 2500 QC SB 5spd, EZ, Flowmaster 3 chamber, K&N Re-0880
1968 Barracuda Formula S Viper Blue 11. 98@112 Currently scattered all over the garage

 

[Mad Max]

I was just about to say, go check out the GN/Type T crowd for some turbo tips... then I say Bent Six's sig...

Is that you Dutwieler? (sp)

Max

Ps. Nice way down the 'ol 1320.

 

[Max340]

EMD, most EMD locomotives are supercharged since they are 2 cycle diesels. What loco's did you see the turbo arrangement on?


------------------
Y2K 2500 QC Sport 4x4 LWB
72 Dart 340
89 LeBaron GTC 2. 2 TI

 

[PUFF00]

... I really hate to say this... its its an AUTOMATIC(i feel horrible).

Bad340fish: Shame on you. #ad


------------------
2001. 5 3500 QC 4X4 6-speed HO 3. 55 black
1998 Jeep TJ black http://www.nm4w.org/members/puffer.htm

[This message has been edited by PUFF (edited 04-27-2001). ]

 

[EMDDIESEL]

The only supercharged (roots blown) engines EMD has are the 12 cylinder models and a few of the 16's (GP38, SD38, ETC. ) which are becoming more rare. Every 16 and 20 cylinder engine other then those have ALWAYS been turbocharged, SD40 (-2), GP40 (-2), SD50, SD60/M/I, SD70/MAC, F40PH, etc (too many to list). and for the last 15 years they have not even used ANY roots blown engines in there locomotives. Superchargers do not produce enough power to be worthwhile on locomotives. GE has also always used Turbochargers on there engines (which are 4 cycle). Just curious why you think because they are 2 cycle they wouldnt be Turbocharged?.

 

[TXRam]

May just have to see if I can rig up my 210mph leaf blower to the air filter inlet - it should provide enough to get it started! #ad


------------------
1999 2500 QC 4X4 LB Auto (DTT Upgraded), 4. 10LS, 275HP Injectors, PowerEdge, PowerEdge EZ, SPA Boost and EGT, K&N Air Filter, Magnaflow straight-thru muffler
NRA Member

 

[drawson]

There is a company call Turbo Zen that build an electric turbo that will make 5 PSI of boost. I talked to them down at the SEMA show and they where going to be bring out a bigger one for our application(all the stuff they had was for Jap junk). They where pretty pricy, but if they get one that is big enough it should feel the bill.

------------------
EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, 2 Electric Fans, One inside/ One out front, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, South Bend's Hypo Clutch*NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

 

[EMDDIESEL]

That electric "Turbocharger" you speak of sounds very much like a device called the "E-ram" Sold by a person who i will rightfully call a scam artist. What he says it will do is give you 4-5 more HP. It is for gas cars and it attatches to the Mass airflow sensor and has a throttle switch that turns it on when the throttle is wide open. My friend ordered one for $300. 00 and what he got was 2 rubber "fernco" couplings (Basically a rubber boot for attatching drain pipes together) and an RC plane ducted fan motor. It does absolutley NOTHING. 0 increase in power. It is assembled like it was done by a 5 year old. He also included illegible photo copied instructions. He even warns throught the instructions that the fan "might come apart" and basically destroy your engine. And his policy is "No refunds". Avoid this crook at all costs, his web site is www.electricsupercharger.com. This other device is probably very similar to this POS.

I would highly reccomend not putting any moving parts in front of your $1,400 turbocharger spinning at 40,000 rpm on your 4 thousand dollar engine. What minute amount of power it may make is in no way worth the catastrophic damage it could cause. Even if it had a screen to contain a failure, (which to be effective would have holes so small it would seriously restrict airflow) i would not take the chance. There are much safer ways to get extra HP that wont risk your trucks health.

 

[Max340]

EMD, turbocharging a 2 cycle diesel is almost (but not quite, due to fuel burned in that cycle) like a perpetual motion machine. In essence, using exhaust gas to turn a turbo that forces air into the cylinder to purge/charge the cylinder and force exhaust gas out past the turbo sounds vaguely like a system that cannot lose and uses no energy. A supercharger would have the advantage of gearing that could (but not necessarily) effect an overdriven charge, using crank power to charge the cylinder, instead of exhaust power that does not have a direct effect (a perfectly proportional ratio of RPM to volume of gas passing the blades) on the blades. Also, given the huge size of a turbocharger on a locomotive, there are obvious advantages to the supercharger, which would immediately force feed the two cycle engine, rather than having a lag time that would waste energy due to the large mass of the turbo.

In a two cycle engine, the super/turbocharger isn't for power as much as to feed the engine since it cannot produce an intake "suction" because it lacks that stroke.

But it appears only the 567 series had superchargers, the rest were turbo'ed. Doesn't seem logical.

 

[jmeehan]

The state has three ferries with 12 cylinder EMD's that are turboe'd. On these the turbo is basically a super charger at low R. P. M. The camshaft drives the turbo through a oneway overrunning clutch known as a sprag clutch. Auto trannies use sprag clutchs too. Once the engine is producing enough exhaust gas to drive the turbo the clutch disengages.
Lots of tugs use EMD's also. It's pretty cool, they sound just like a locomotive going by.

------------------
ex Ford tech, now driving '01. 5 2500 4X4 QC LB ETH/DEE SLT 3. 54, Patriot Blue

 

[EMDDIESEL]

That correct, All EMD's Turbocharged engines are gear driven till about 700rpm then the clutch releases and they free wheel all the way to max RPM of about 904. Kind of like a "Super-Turbocharger". EMD's newest engine, the 16V-265H is thier first 4 cycle and that engine uses 2 Turbos as does GE's new 6,000 HP engine.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Oh, and as far as it not being logical as to why EMD uses Turbos instead of Superchargers?, real simple, EMD is owned by GM!!!!, did you really think they would do something that makes sense! this is the same company that thinks its a great idea to use aluminum cylinder heads on a diesel.

 

[Max340]

Originally posted by EMDDIESEL:
Oh, and as far as it not being logical as to why EMD uses Turbos instead of Superchargers?, real simple, EMD is owned by GM!!!!, did you really think they would do something that makes sense! this is the same company that thinks its a great idea to use aluminum cylinder heads on a diesel.

Ok, ya got me there.

Maybe thats why I always liked ALCo's?

 

[tgbol]

The only EMD engine I have worked on was in an old tugboat that was the engineer on for awhile. It was an 8 cylinder and had only a blower no turbo (1947 technology).
I have worked on plenty of Detroit Diesels with both superchargers and turbos. Even a 12V71tta with 2 blowers and 4 turbos. (hi-perf marine engine) talk about noise and power.
I currently have charge of an ALCO emergency gen-set 10,660 cubic inch 18 cylinder. The turbo weighs 2143lbs.

------------------
01. 5 QC ETH/DEE 4X4 LB intense blue sport, everything but leather and cab lights. Trailer and Camper Packages. DC brush guard, missing turbo ring, amber rear turn signals and real back-up lights, K&N re-0880

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Alcos were great, i miss them (and there smoke).