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Turbo Soot Buildup - Why

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EGR Connector

913 Torque

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RSchwarzli

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What actually causes soot to buildup in the turbo making the dealer need to clean out/ replace them??



Now that I am driving the Mega daily, I want to be sure that I am not doing something to increase the likelly hood ofg a turbo failure.



So what causes it and what to do to prevent it??



Also, if I use the E brake for faster winter warm up, does that help contribute? What about use in daily driving unloaded??



Thanks!



Robert
 
BSchwarzli,



My understanding is that the soot in the turbo is caused by back pressure from the DPF.



To prevent problems:

1. ALWAYS drive with the Exhaust Brake on

2. DRIVE the truck!!! I don't mean speed. I don't mean recklessly or abusively. I mean drive it for extended periods of time at a decent clip.



3. It is not a matter of keeping the tubo from needing cleaned, but when the turbo will need cleaned.



I went 20k miles, then had the turbo clogged up without warning.



Even after getting the turbo cleaned, my understanding is that future cleans will be necessary. The paperwork I was given after the turbo cleaning was talking about future maintenance of cleaning the turbo.



Drive the truck, love the truck, get the turbo cleaned, then you should be worry free.
 
You will either pay for cleaning or you may be driving and hit a LARGE bump (pot hole) and the DPF falls off.
 
What actually causes soot to buildup in the turbo making the dealer need to clean out/ replace them??



Now that I am driving the Mega daily, I want to be sure that I am not doing something to increase the likelly hood ofg a turbo failure.



So what causes it and what to do to prevent it??



Also, if I use the E brake for faster winter warm up, does that help contribute? What about use in daily driving unloaded??



Thanks!



Robert





SI = SO

Soot in = soot out
 
My understanding is that the soot in the turbo is caused by back pressure from the DPF.

Back pressure from the DPF can increase soot in the turbo, but only excessive backpressure (DPF plugged and your truck's on the side of the road kind of stuff. ) To put it simply, combustion is the main reason (but, again, not the only reason) for soot in the turbo. There are various operating modes which make the truck run rich (desoot and the like), so couple this w/ EGR (air that is not free of combustion byproducts) and you have a sooty system. From what I understand the DPF plugging issues are not as bad anymore, yet there are still sooty turbos, so I agree that it is not a matter of if but when you need a turbo cleaning.
 
Having been working on 6. 0 and 6. 4 Powerstrokes as well as Cummins motors I can tell you that yes the extra fuel that is pumped in during the regeneration cycle of the DPF causes soot buildup but another very big contributor is an EGR system. When you have soot running out of the motor and pump it back in it gets in the turbo and cokes it up horribly. Ford got by that by using an elcetric motor to cycle through the complete stroke of the variable displacement turbo to break the coking up every time you turn the key on with the 6. 4. 6. 0 owners know your pain by having to clean and replace turbos and EGR valves constantly. I would say after your warranty is up get rid of the stock turbo and put an aftermarket turbo on it.
 
Sounds like if you unplug the EGR, soot will be reduced... ...



So when the E brake is turned ON, what direction do the vanes face? Are they in the open or closed position and does that hold back soot making larger deposits on the vanes??



Robert
 
Unplugging the EGR would reduce soot but would trigger a check engine light and maybe cause other issues with the DPF filter unless you found an EGR delete kit and installed it. As far as the e brake thing I believe that using the e brake you load the engine causing the computer to change displacement in the turbo and thereby moving the vanes to reduce the possiblity of them coking up and sticking.
 
See if there is a up date for your truck. Check around and see if some close to you is having the same trouble
 
If you unplug the EGR and pull the butterfly in the intake manifold all you will get is a soft code and a check engine light. Your regens will drop to about 1/4 of what they are now and the DPF will stay much cleaner.



Always run with the EB on to reduce soot buildup on the sliding vane...
 
If you unplug the EGR and pull the butterfly in the intake manifold all you will get is a soft code and a check engine light. Your regens will drop to about 1/4 of what they are now and the DPF will stay much cleaner.



Always run with the EB on to reduce soot buildup on the sliding vane...



OK E brake finally understood!!:rolleyes:Oo.



Gypsyman - Can you still unplug the EGR if you do not remove the butterfly vavle??



Thanks!



Robert
 
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Sorry got stuck in Powerstroke land with the vanes comment but that is what I was getting at was that you want to keep everything in your turbo moving to keep it from coking up. I too am interested to hear about unplugging the EGR valve and the butterfly valve.
 
There are some HUGE threads on the other sites that cover this. If you unplug the EGR and don't clear the code the ETC valve should stay open. If the truck runs funny and throws the lightning bolt on the dash then the butterfly has to come out. Only take a minute to try and you have nothing to lose.
 
As far as the e brake thing I believe that using the e brake you load the engine causing the computer to change displacement in the turbo and thereby moving the vanes to reduce the possiblity of them coking up and sticking.



It doesn't load the engine, per se, but the sliding action does "scrape" soot away which can cause the nozzle to stick (sticky nozzle equals P2262). This page has a little animation on a VGT, it is air actuated (ours are electronically actuated), but it gives a good idea of what's going on inside. www.cummins.com/turbos - VGT
 
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I see what you are sayin. I was more referring to the reverse load that the exhaust brake function puts on the engine and the computer moving the slide when it does it to keep it from sticking. But I agree with you completely.
 
Soot build up that sticks the turbo comes from two sources. One is the normal exhaust soot produced from combustion. The second source is from EGR gases that have soot in them, also from combustion. This is kind of the double whammy that may contribute to sticking.

Also there are two kinds of soot build up that can cause problems. One is the soot that gets packed at either end of the sliding nozzle travel and keeps the turbo from making full boost and/or full brake. The second is soot that sticks to the sliding nozzle or housing and binds up the nozzle keeping it from moving freely. This type of stick is generally associated with a customer reporting intermittent lack of power followed by burst of normal power. The P2262 is also a two trip fault so if it does stick one time it might not turn on the CEL. It has to stick in two consecutive trips to turn on the light and store the code.

There are several things we can do to reduce soot generation and possible sticking. First and most important is to have the latest flash available. The newest flashes keep soot generation to a minimum. The second thing is to run good quality, clean #2 diesel. Avoid BIO, especially more than 5%. Next keep idle to a minimum. There is a fair amount of EGR flow at idle, and at idle there is no boost pressure to better burn the fuel. Use the proper engine oil, change as indicated by oil change light, and change the breather filter as required. Avoid power enhancers as they add more fuel thus making more soot. Use of the EB can help because it moves the slider to the extremes of travel more than when it is not on.

That is about all we can do to keep it clean. If it does stick the dealer can try cleaning it once, and if that does not do it the turbo will probably have to be replaced. Also very important but beyond our control is the importance of following the cleaning procedure completely. I like to see six cans of cleaner used vs. the three specified. Also turbo should be hot as possible during the cleaning. The rest of the system has to be cleaned at the same time to get any excessive soot build up out of the EGR and intake system. The most important thing for the technician to do is determine the root cause of the soot. This is where the customer can help. Give the technician as much information as possible. If you were out hunting and idling around for a few days there is probably nothing wrong to "fix". Tell them what kind of driving you have been doing and any other symptoms you might be having. If you are having recurring problems with CEL there might be other causes that need to be diagnosed. Chrysler is paying actual time for cleaning and it is not unusual to have 8+ hours to properly clean the system. So for the bay area dealer that have labor rates in excess of $120/hr it's not chump change. Believe me Chrysler wants to get it fixed correctly just as bad as you do, and they are paying the technicians fairly to make sure it gets done.

I'm sure I forgot some things, but I think I covered the high points.
 
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