Turbocharger Impeller Blades Shot

[ABGordon]

I have a 1993 W250 and removed the air inlet hose to change the air filter and saw the turbo impeller blades are a mess. I see a new turbo and 16cm housing costs about $512. 00 - is this the way to go or should I consider replacing just the impeller and shaft? Is it very risky to drive the truck with the impeller blades showing evidence of intimate and/or frequent contact with the housing?



THANKS!!

 

[Grey Wolf]

You could have the "cartridge" changed out but if the wheels have been hitting the sides you may need housings too? Why not take the opportunity and upgrade to another unit like PDR sells!



http://www.piersdiesel.com/DodgeTurbos.htm



By the way if it was my truck I wouldn't be driving it if it looks as you described.

 

[banzaitoyota]

DO NOT CONTINUE DRIVING THAT TRUCK!!!!!!!!!

 

[dpuckett]

DITTO!!! Park it till you get a new turbo on there. ANd while you're at it, look around and see who has the best deal. I love my PDR35 with even the stock 18cm housing on it. The 12cm was fun, but a little too fun for the price of fuel now. High Tech turb offers an upgrade kit for the H1C. Kind of gives you a H1C/ HX40 hybrid- body and exhaust side of the H1C; impellar of the HX40.



Guys, you need to check the air filter now and then and the turbo at every other oil change, at least. (Now, I need too heed my own preaching ). The guy who bought my 93 W350 3 yrs ago, never changed the filter, and neither did the guy who bought it from him. They were lucky- the turbo is still good. But if I get it back, it will get a bigger turbo anyway.



Daniel

 

[JLEONARD]

I agree don't drive it.

This happened to me a year and a half ago. I was fortunate that there was no apparent engine damage.

I SHOULD have bought a PDR HX 35 as a replacement, but I was ignorant as to what to do. You have no excuse .



Seriously, strongly consider a turbo upgrade from stock. I went with a stock replacement, and after a lot of shopping around, I bought mine from usdieselparts for $370.

I wanted to rebuild mine, but the shaft was toast... . the rebuild kit is about $85.

There is no "cartridge" available for the H1C.



Hope this helps.

Good luck

Jay

 

[ABGordon]

I am a little confused about what to buy. The PDR HX35 says it can be used with 1989-1993 Dodge trucks with WH1 turbos. Is that what I have (1993 W250). Apparently dpuckett bought a HX35 and re-used his old 18cm housing. Is that recommended or should I spend extra to buy PDR's 16 cm non-waste gated housing to install with the HX35? Most importantly from my perspective, will thge HX35 really reduce the EGT and make it less likely my turbo will fry in the future? I don't expect to tow except once in a blue moon. I would like to eliminate the turbo lag off the line, but am not into drag racing my truck down the road (no offense).



Thanks again, the HX-35 plus 16cm housing from PDR will cost $800 vs. $512 for a stock turbo with 16cm housing from Gomer's. Is it worth the extra dough?



Also this is my first diesel, it looks like the turbo install is pretty easy, anything to watch out for?

 

[ABGordon]

I forgot to mention that the previous ownder of my truck (Mr. Einstein) installed a set of 4 gauges on the dash but did not bother to hook up the pyrometer to the exhaust system. Perhaps this has something to do with the condition of the turbo. I don't really care about the other 3 gauges (tach/oil temp/boost press) -I know that comment may get a reaction here - but I really want the pyrometer hook-up. Do I go to a machine shop to have somebody drill and tap the exhaust pipe?



Thanks again,

Alan

 

[cerberusiam]

You can drill and tap for the pyro yourself with a 3/8 electric drill and the correct size drill and tap. Its a pretty simple operation if your semi habdy with tools. Since it sounds like you need to change your turbo out I would do it then so you make sure all the shavings are out.



With a 93 you should have a 18. 5 cm housing and an H1C or WH1 compressor. With the large housing you have to push some fuel to spool it but EGT/drive pressures are not as big an issue. These turbos had an efficient operation range of 15 to 20 psi. Much over the 20 psi and you were way out of there efficiency range. The modified HX35, like PDR sells, were good up to about 35 psi and made much better air in the operation range given intake and exhaust mods.



A lot depends on what you want to do and what you want to spend. If you want a kick butt, fire breathing, ricer smoking monster try a 14 cm housing and a modified HX35. Not as good for towing but with enough fuel driveability is just plain fun. A 16 cm is a good replacement for the 21 housings but since you already have an 18. 5 get the bigger compressor and keep your existing housing. Take what you save and put it towards a set of injectors. JMO, but that may suit your wants and needs a little better. Good luck.

 

[bgilbert]

I saw on PDR's site $650 for hx35, $150 for 16cm housing. Can someone tell me, us, when u buy a hx-35 are they assuming you are going to use your existing exhaust housing, or is the $650 include a ex/housing?



Alan, if it was me, I'd UPGRADE. If you don't get a housing with hx35 purchase, just pay the $650 for an UPGRADED turbo and use your 18 cm housing-that is if the inside of it's not all chewed up or grooved. If it is then go with the 16 and hx35.



If you have a drill and some tools, you can do the pyro tap yourself, we can guide you through it. You'll want to install the tap in the exhaust manifold, not the downpipe. This is best done when you have the old turbo off, that is since you will have it off for your new turbo, it can be done very easily with the turbo still on though.

You don't care about you other guages?? Thats fine, I'll take em off your hands , clear that dash up for ya

 

[JLEONARD]

There's a used HX 35 in the classifieds... . might be worth a look.

 

[CDegner]

Originally posted by bgilbert

I saw on PDR's site $650 for hx35, $150 for 16cm housing. Can someone tell me, us, when u buy a hx-35 are they assuming you are going to use your existing exhaust housing, or is the $650 include a ex/housing?

The $650 does not include a exhaust housing. Your stock housing will work on the HX35. A 16 would work even better! (faster spoolup, yada, yada, ... ) Have it ported and it spools up even faster.



Carl

 

[MRickard]

ABGordon: I was wondering what brand the previous filter(s) were because they seem to not be doing a very good job of filtering the air. I have a K&N on mine (was on when I bought it, I did not choose it) and my impeller has a few blemishes on it. I looked at the filter and you can see by looking at it that all thier talk is a fraud - better airflow, yes, now I can <i>see</i> why! The holes are pretty big - it is just a "mesh" of netting with a lot of voids in it. I think they want you to use oils too to aid in collecting of particles because the "mesh" alone does not do much. I would get a good airfilter that has very nice filtering, and then use size for the flow capacity. Unless I am wrong with assuming the turbo's impeler blades should never get messed up by particulates, the K&N is junk (unless they come with an extra turbo)

 

[ABGordon]

Cerberus-u-r



The PDR website says the HX35 can be used with 1989-1993 Dodge trucks with WH1 turbos. So apparently the 18. 5 cm housings are different. My housing says HOLSET on it. Is that the one that can be bolted up to an HX35?



Thanks again

 

[ABGordon]

MRickard, I am a newbie here, but I don't believe the air filter is the cause of the impeller problem. Turning off the engine while the exhaust gas temperature exceeds a certain number (help me out here, anybody) is what causes the impeller blades to kiss the compressor housing.

 

[JLEONARD]

I run a K&N and have had no issues.

Shutting down with a hot turbo does not make the compressor blades hit the housing... . at least not directly.

A hot (over 300F) shutdown, can cause the shaft bearing surfaces to "coke" the oil... this means burn it and leave behind a residue that coats the shaft... . both the radial and thrust bearing surfaces. So now the bearing surface is not what it should be, and thus starts to wear the bearing a little. It also may not spin as fast as it should.

And so it goes, and eventually the bearings wear to the point that the shaft has too much radial and/or axial play.

Once the play gets to be excessive, the compressor blades can hit the housing.

Now the spec for play (movement) is probably around . 010 - . 015" or something like that... I don't have the specs in front of me. But even a little more play than that and you'd still not hit the housing.

When I took mine apart I had probably . 090" of axial play... . there was literally NO thrust bearing left. The main shaft bearing was fine. The compressor wheel was a good bit smaller than it used to be.

In my case, the disc portion of the shaft that is the thrust surface had cracked and a piece broke off, (thus becomming a lathe tool) destroying the bronze thrust bearing.

Now dust entering the turbo via a poor air filter will "sandblast" the blades but won't make then hit the housing (unless your talking gravel). The dust can get into the intake, cylinders, etc and score the cylinder walls. It can also get into the oil, and some may sneak thru the filter system... . but if enough gets thru to destroy the turbo bearings, then this will be the least of your worries.....

Sorry for the rambling post..... but I haven't done one for while so I'm due

Jay

 

[nascar mark]

Originally posted by ABGordon

Cerberus-u-r



The PDR website says the HX35 can be used with 1989-1993 Dodge trucks with WH1 turbos. So apparently the 18. 5 cm housings are different. My housing says HOLSET on it. Is that the one that can be bolted up to an HX35?



Thanks again

The 89-93 Dodge trucks with Cummins engine came with a H1C which is a earlier version (HX35) Holset turbo. The only differences between the turbo's were - Non intercooled engine years (89-91. 4) had a smaller compressor housing intake and pin wheel and oil feed thread size. The 91. 5-93 H1C's had the larger compressor housing and pin wheel. The 94 had a WH1C was the same as the H1C except it was set up for a wastegated 12cm exhaust housing.

The HX35 was put on the 95-02 engine years with very few changes.

All of them are Holset turbo's and all exhaust housings (12 cm wastegated, 12 cm non waste gated,14 cm wastegated, 14 cm non waste gated, 16 cm non w/g, 18. 5 cm non w/g, and 21 cm exhaust housings will fit the H1C, WH1C and the HX35.

 

[MRickard]

Originally posted by ABGordon

MRickard, I am a newbie here, but I don't believe the air filter is the cause of the impeller problem. Turning off the engine while the exhaust gas temperature exceeds a certain number (help me out here, anybody) is what causes the impeller blades to kiss the compressor housing.

you are right there. Mine is just the opposite





this is from dodgeram.org turbocharger FAQ:

* Stop & Go, Load - Empty, Turbocharger temp - Cool, Idle Time... Less than 1 min.

* Stop & Go, Load - Medium, Turbocharger temp - Warm, Idle Time - 1 min

* Highway Spds. , Load - Medium, Turbocharger temp - Warm, Idle Time - 2 min.

* City Traffic, Load - Max GCWR, Turbocharger temp - Warm, Idle Time - 3 min

* Highway Spds. , Load - Max GCWR, Turbocharger temp - Warm, Idle Time - 4 min.

* Uphill Grade, Load - Max GCWR, Turbocharger temp - Hot!!, Idle Time - 5 min.



I just wait untill it is at or below 300 for a little bit, and to get the area smellin' nice and good before I shut it off.

 

[Jonesy]

IF YOUR INTERESTED I HAVE A H1C OFF OF MY 89, iT NEEDS A NEW HOUSING BUT IS FINE OTHERWISE, WILL LET IT GO CHEAP. PM ME IF INTERESTED

 

[nascar mark]

Originally posted by Jonesy

IF YOUR INTERESTED I HAVE A H1C OFF OF MY 89, iT NEEDS A NEW HOUSING BUT IS FINE OTHERWISE, WILL LET IT GO CHEAP. PM ME IF INTERESTED

Jonesy,

Your 89 H1C won't work on his truck as your turbo is plumbed for a non intercooled engine. The compressore housing and the pin wheel is a lot smaller then the 91. 5-93 H1C's.

 

[ABGordon]

Thanks everyone, I ordered the HX35 with 16cm housing from PDR, and an ISSPRO EV Pyrometer from another vendor. I plan to do engine shutdown at around 300 degrees EGT. I will prob. advertise all or most of my other gauges in the Pay It Forward forum in a few weeks.



If I understand the term "BOMB" correctly, this website (i. e. , the membership thereof) certainly qualifies as the BOMB.



-Alan