Archived Two VP44s in two days need help!

[grimesja]

I have a 2001 Ram 2500 4x4 automatic, my edge /juice has been removed. Friday evening my truck shut down at a signal light in Palatka about 40 miles from home. No fuel coming from the njection pump. I changed the pump, truck ran 4. 0. I drove it about 20 miles yesterday in rainy weather checked 4. 0. I went to work and started home today after about 30 minutes the weather was around 95 in Florida. The truck coughed and shutdown. Again I have fuel going to the pump but none from the pump to the injectors. Is there a really or something which could be causing this? The symtoms are the same the engine stumbles, coughs and shuts down. Any advice will be greatly appreciated, this is my daily driver.

 

[FYarcho]

Are you checking for codes? If so what codes are you getting. Is it and electronics failure or a mechanical failure?

 

[grimesja]

I'm thinking it has to be electronic, I am pulling codes 1693 and 0216. I have 23 psi fuel pressure to the pump, nothing coming out.

 

[JLandry]

I'm thinking it has to be electronic, I am pulling codes 1693 and 0216. I have 23 psi fuel pressure to the pump, nothing coming out.

When you say nothing comes out, you mean you're not getting any fuel from the injector line fittings at the cylinder head?



Have you cleared the trouble codes and tried starting (running) the engine again to see if the same codes return? You want to make sure that P0216 code isn't left over from the first episode or from the VP44 installation.



You might try these ideas one at a time...



In the PDC (Power Distribution Center) under the hood, swap the fuel pump (or it could be named "fuel injection" or "fuel system") relay for another non-essential relay (like the windshield wiper relay).



Try swapping the ASD relay for another non-essential relay and see what happens.



Good luck,



John L.

 

[grimesja]

I have swapped several of the relays. There is not one identified as the fuel pump relay. But I have swappped anthing related to fuel or engine power.



No fuel coming out of the lines period. I don't have a scanner to clear the codes. Is there another method?

 

[DCreed]

Was this a new/rebuilt VP? Did you talk to the shop the pump came from?

 

[JLandry]

I have 23 psi fuel pressure to the pump

You have 23 pounds of fuel pressure when you bump the starter? If yes, that maybe be too much pressure to allow the VP44 to start the engine. I've read reports of excessive fuel pressure causing the VP44 not to operate properly. 15 psi is ideal, as this is what the VP44 is calibrated for on the rebuilder's test stand.



What type of lift pump do you have?



To clear diagnostic trouble codes, you'll need a code scanner available from any auto parts store or even places like WalMart.



Regards,



John L.

 

[JLandry]

Was this a new/rebuilt VP? Did you talk to the shop the pump came from?

Ditto what DCreed said.



What does the rebuilder of your pump have to say about this?



Regards,



John L.

 

[grimesja]

L&J diesel have the first pump which died after 1 month. They have been pulling their hair out on this one. The second pump was a backup I carried from a wrecked 2000. It ran great when I pulled it off the motor a few month ago. I installed it on Monday and it ran great no codes for 1 day then it quit suddenly. I was really caught off guard because the pumps have normally had a slow death on my truck. I have replaced 4 pumps in two years.



I put the Holley blue on the truck to boost the fuel pressure from the stock transfer pump. I normally run about 21-23 PSI at idle and drops to about 18 WOT.



I believe it has to be something with the electronics. Two pumps doing the smae thing. I wondering if something is getting over heated in the circuits.

 

[JLandry]

The second pump was a backup I carried from a wrecked 2000. It ran great when I pulled it off the motor a few month ago. I installed it on Monday and it ran great no codes for 1 day then it quit suddenly. I was really caught off guard because the pumps have normally had a slow death on my truck.

There's an accumulator diaphragm inside the VP44 which has a seal around it. We know this seal can be damaged by low fuel pressure. I don't see why it couldn't also be damaged from excessively high fuel pressure.

I put the Holley blue on the truck to boost the fuel pressure from the stock transfer pump. I normally run about 21-23 PSI at idle and drops to about 18 WOT.

Maybe some of the other readers who have experience running this much pressure can comment, but this sounds like awfully high fuel pressure to me.



Can you at least temporarily disconnect that Holey pump to get the pressure at or below 15psi to see if that will help? But even if you can, it may be too late for the VP44 anyway if the diaphragm seal is blown.

I believe it has to be something with the electronics.

Well that Cummins tester would definitely rule out a problem EXTERNAL to the VP44. If it started and ran using the tester you'd know you have a problem with the truck's electronics. You might check to see if there's a Cummins repair facility nearby with a tester... or have you checked to see if L&J Diesel has one? They're pretty common... even show up on eBay from time to time.



Good luck,



John L.

 

[AKAMAC]

Have you checked the connection to the ECM? Two doing the same thing sounds hickey to me. Try pulling it off and spraying down with contact cleaner, easier than changing the VP.

 

[DCreed]

have you changed the relief valve when putting on the new pump?

 

[JR2]

Have you checked to make sure you don't have bad fuel. A load of water in your fuel would kill a pump. Or a load of gas in your diesel can kill a pump.

People will argue about it, but 23 psi is too high. You need FP around 15-17. There are hard starting problems with high fuel press, that is why the lift pump does not run constantly when you turn the key on. Like others have said, get a pump tester and see what happens. Its quite possible that your high FP has blown the diaphragm in the pump or caused some other internal failure.

 

[burndog]

The fuel injection relay is in the fuse box next to the drivers side battery on a 2001 and is labled. Read the top cover to the fuse box and make sure you have swapped that one.

If that is ok the VP44 needs to be tested by the Cummins box. Unfortunately,you may be putting another pump on to make it run.

 

[grimesja]

I have disconnected and reconnected the ECM. I have swapped almost every rellay in the power control box.



I can install the regulator which came with the Holley fuel pump to turn the pressure down. I have drained and cleaned all the fuel lines, inluding removine the filter and installing a new one.



All of the relays have been swapped around.



DCreed, what releif valve are you referring to?

 

[DCreed]

DCreed, what releif valve are you referring to?

there is a pressure bypass valve on the fuel return line of the IP, it should always be replaced when a pump is, and usually comes with the new pump.

 

[JLandry]

DCreed, what releif valve are you referring to?

It's built into the banjo bolt on the fuel outlet of the VP44.



John L.

 

[grimesja]

Currently, the repair facility is stating water in the fuel as the cause of the problem. The internals are very rusty which is not normal for a pump less then 2 months old. Anyway L&J are not going to warranty the pump because of the rust

 

[grimesja]

Okay guys the puzzle just got more confusing. I left the battery cables off over night and charged the batteries. I was getting ready to remove the second pump and thought one more shot. I spun the motor over and noticed fuel coming from under the truck. I tightend the lines up and the truck started. It appears to definitely be an electrical problem. I've swapped relays. Could the ECU be overheating? If so how do you tell.

 

[Diesel Dummie]

Check all your connections to make sure you are not sucking air in with the fuel, i put a good used pump and finally a brand new one and mine still would not start, i had a broken clamp on the tank side of my holley, had good fuel psi at pump but nothing at injectors, she had more air than fuel. Cut the spring in the Holley to lower the pressure to 15 at idle, dont put in the regulator. DD