Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) uh oh - brown fuel

[zman]

Well, it appears at this point that WyoJim might have been right - bad fuel may be the cause of my problem. See this thread: lift pump #2 dies at 8:15 this morning...



The dealer diagnosed the problem as a bad fuel pressure valve (the one on the return line of the injection pump) and ordered a replacement valve. During the install late today, the tech noticed that the fuel was brown - and you all know what that means - algae in the tank. I haven't seen the fuel sample yet since the dealer still has my truck, but this doesn't sound good. It has been extremely hot and humid around here the last 3 weeks, so conditions are perfect for algae growth. I always buy my fuel at the same place so I called them late this afternoon to discuss the dealer's findings. Of course they haven't had any complaints and are positive it isn't a problem with their fuel. BUT, they did offer to have the fuel tested at no cost to me (although I may do my own test just to be sure they don't pull a fast one on me).



I have noticed that some of you have been able to fix your problems just by draining the tank and refilling with fresh fuel, some conditioner, and some biocide and changing the filter several times. I'm thinking I would be better off dropping the tank for a full cleaning of the tank and the intake membrane.



I know Steve St. Laurent had algae problems and I have read his thread and talked to him about his episode just after it happened. I'm not looking forward to dealing with this. Anyone know if this is covered by auto comprehensive insurance coverage. I'd gladly pay $50 to get this fixed right. In lieu of that, anyone know how hard it is to drop the tank???



TIA for any help!



Steve :{

 

[illflem]

Dropping the tank is easy, if it's empty or close. Easy way to siphon is to remove the fill tube so you can get your hose past the rollover ball. Since the station appears to be willing to work with you you might ask if they can dispose of the bad fuel for you. Depending on your situation (how many fires you need to start) this can be difficult or expensive. If you have someone else do the work the hazardous material disposal fee will be a major part of the cost, I've heard up to $12/ga in some places.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Bummer man, feel free to call me for advice any time. PM me for my cell phone number if you don't already have it. I was able to succesfully get my truck running great after my episode without dropping the tank and haven't had problems since. I have about 25 gallons of bad diesel left - works awesome for starting campfires !



-Steve

 

[Mundgyver]

You might as well get into the habit of running bioside about once a month. Does not take much and prevention is the key. Good luck

 

[DarrellB]

Checked mine today

Zman, I checked mine today since I see you live in Southern Indaina and my fuel is just fine. Were did you buy the fuel? I would like to avoid that place if I can.



If you'e not doing anything the 20th you should come over to the Bombing Party at my house. It looks like we will have a pretty good turnout for this one. There is more info on the forum just do a search of "July Indian Get Together" and you can find it.



Later

Darrell

 

[nickleinonen]

zman.. do you know if you filled up just after the station was filled?

zman. . do you know if you filled up just after the station was filled? if you fill up right after a station gets filled up, all the crap that was settled at the bottom of their holding tanks gets stirred up and gets pumped to who ever is buying fuel. it takes a while to let the stuff settle back down. . when is the last time that the station you got the fuel from had cleaned out their tanks?

 

[zman]

Thanks for the responses guys! I'm working with the place where I buy my fuel to get this taken care of. I buy from the Bloomington Farm Bureau Co-op. They sell way more diesel than just about all other places in town combined. All of my buddies in town buy their fuel at the same place, so I'm gonna ask them to check their fuel as well.



Where can I get some biocide and how much should I use to shock treat the fuel system? I already have four bottles of Stanadyne fuel conditioner.



Darrell - I saw your posts about the 20th, but I still don't know if I will be in town or not. I'm trying to get a family vacation set up for that time frame, but I've been so busy that I haven't done it yet. I'll be there if I'm not on vacation. Thanks for the invite!



Steve

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I bought my biocide at the local Tractor Supply Company. You also want to run a double dose of Stanadyne to improve the lubricity of the fuel because the biocide will reduce it. I'd highly recommend you start with a fresh tank of fuel otherwise you're going to go through a LOT of filters. Here's the article I wrote for the TDR on how I fixed my problem:

This is an article that I hoped and never thought I'd get to write! I recently got my first bad load of fuel. I put 19 gallons of #2 in, and within 2 miles of leaving the station, the truck started hesitating. I checked my fuel pressures with my fuel pressure gauge (see page xx) and had a 2 psi differential across the filter whereas I had none before the fill up. I drained some fuel out of the water separator, and it ran ok for a little while then started hesitating again. I changed my fuel filter that night and had no restriction across the filter after getting the engine going again. Within 2 miles, I had a 2 psi restriction again, and it was stumbling! I talked with a shop that supports the GLTDR (Dave's Diesel - www.davesdiesel.com), and they said it looks like I've got algae or bugs in the fuel (there is a sulfur smell and the fuel is brown). They recommended draining the fuel and treating the tank with the following treatment. First, drain the fuel out of the tank by running the engine and opening the drain valve on the fuel filter to pump most of the fuel out of it. To be sure that I had enough fuel running to the injection pump to keep it lubricated, I closed it every 10 seconds. Then, once the fuel tank is close to empty, shut the engine down. Then turn the ignition on and bump the starter to run the lift pump and get the rest out. Then put in fresh fuel, treat it with a shock treatment of biocide and a double dose of Stanadyne fuel treatment, and change the filter again. For the next 3 tank loads treat it with a regular dose of biocide and the double dose of Stanadyne, then change the fuel filter one more time. After doing that, my truck was running correctly again.



I'm just really glad that I had my fuel pressure gauge on the truck and was able to read pre and post filter pressures! Without that data and having changed the filter 3 times (4 times total when I change it again in a couple of days), I would have been second guessing myself. I contacted the fuel supplier, and unfortunately, they denied the problem. It turns out that in the state of Michigan the agriculture department is responsible for fuel quality issues. I contacted them, and they said that there is no standard in Michigan for diesel fuel so there was nothing they could do. They recommended that I contact the Attorney Generals office, which I did, and they also were unable to do anything. I am now considering whether or not to take this to small claims court. I never thought I'd have to deal with bad fuel (it ALWAYS happens to the other guy, right?) but I've learned my lesson - truck stops only from now on, period. I may even buy a bigger tank to be sure I can always buy at a truck stop.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Steve,



I thought your fungus problem arose after being in the dunk tank so many times!!? :-laf



Matt

 

[DHRA]

Steve,

I called Auto Claims Central after reading your question about your comp coverage. If you have State Farm... . please call 812-331-9500 and talk with auto claims (your local service center). It really depends on your claims specialist and if you need my to call them, let me know.

Keep in mind, if you have a relationship/good acquaintence like I do with the guys and gals at the Petro dept of the Co-op, they won't like you after you do that. More than likely State Farm will have you subrogate. Then they will sue Co-op for their money back (usually ends in a settlement). Food for thought. Let me know if you need me to make any calls.

 

[zman]

boicide ?

Steve, is biocide (BioKleen) specifically for diesel fuel treatment or is it a basic fungicide? When I was in Cummins picking up some new fuel filters today, I asked if they had it and they looked at me kind of funny - obviously they had never heard of it. BTW, Mid-States Cummins charges $13. 80 for a fuel filter and my dealer wanted $47!!!!!! I couldn't believe the difference in price.



Eric, I'll work with the local Co-op guys as long as I can. If they play hardball, I'll try the insurance route. I want to play nice first. BTW, my auto insurance is through Indiana Insurance.



I won't have time to empty the tank until tomorrow night. I'll let you all know what I find.



Thanks again!!



Steve

 

[WyoJim]

zman... . I sure am sorry that your problem got so complicated, and I hope you can resolve it with little effort, altho I know that you can't.



A bad load of fuel can happen to any of us and there is little we can do to stop it.



Give us the blow by blow in your battle to get it running, because the rest of us using your problem as a learning experience is the only positive I can see in the entire mess.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

It's definately a diesel fuel specific product zman. It's sold both to treat problems in tanks as well as for long term storage (as in farm tanks, etc). It's VERY strange that your local Cummins dealer hadn't heard about it, it's a VERY common product. Any tractor supply or farm supply place will have it for sure.

 

[TKilgore]

Can anyone list the names of the biocides they have used and should they be used often as a preventitive?



Thanks



Tom

 

[DarrellB]

I was in Tractor Supply today and they had some. It was about $6 for enough to treat 80 gallons. For the life of me I can't remember the name of it though.



Darrell

 

[Pit Bull]

Picked up a 16oz bottle of Power Service Bio-Kleen today at O'Reilly auto parts it cost $9. 99. Treats up to 320 gallon for the shock application, several thousand for maintance purposes. I put 8oz in my truck, should be good for the rest of the summer since I never let my tank get below 1/2 should keep any problem at bay. This thread made me nervous, so I added it just incase. The instructions said it would work with all other additives. No down side except cost I only refuel at a busy truck stop that sells a ton of fuel, but with all of the heat and humid conditions this summer, better safe then sorry.

 

[Mundgyver]

What you are looking for is called "BIO KLEEN, Diesel Fuel Biocide"

It is produced by Power Service. It can be had in a 16 ounce bottle that treats 960 gallons of fuel. Contents are 4-(2-Nitrobutyl) Morpholine... 76% By Wt. followed by 4,4'-(2-Ethyl-2-Nitrotrimethylene) Dimorpholine... 2% By Wt. followed by Inert Ingredients... 22% By Wt. Distrubuted by Power Service Products, Inc at 513 Peaster Highway, Weatherfor, TX 76086-1089

Treatment calls for 1 ounce to 20 gallons for shock treatment or 1 ounce to 60 gallons for maintenance treatment. 8 ounces to 160 gallons for shock treatment or 8 ounces to 480 gallons for maintenance treatment.

I use 2 ounces per single tank every other month. When I use this I will also add a 32 ounce bottle of Powerservice Diesel additive to increase the lubrication factor. I run 1 bottle of Diesel additive a month unless on a trip at which time I will run 1 bottle with each tank. 66,000 miles now and the fuel in the bowl always looks crystal clean when I change filters. Thats my method.

 

[illflem]

BioKleen, Bugrid and Penray are the most common brands. In 40 years of running diesels I have never used a drop of biocide. I've gotten loads of bad fuel that have plugged the filters, but it wasn't algae. Most all commercial fuel outlets try their hardest to keep a bloom out of their tanks, it doesn't really help them to get repeat customers. Most algae blooms happen in the consumer's tank. You can't control a contaminated source other than by not going back, but preventing an algae bloom in your tank isn't too hard. Either cycle your fuel regularly by driving or if not driving keep the tank full. It takes water to grow algae, most water in diesel comes from condensation. Remember there's a water drain on the bottom of your filter for a reason, use it at least once in a while.

 

[zman]

hmmmmm....

Well, the dealer ended up replacing the lift pump after all. They started out by replacing the pressure relief valve, but it didn't help. I'm now seeing about 13-15 psi again. The fuel was pretty brown compared to the usual stuff, but there was nothing in the filter and nothing floating in the fuel that I drained from the filter canister, so I'm not sure what was causing the fuel to be brown. I'm gonna go ahead and run out the rest in the of the fuel in the tank since there isn't much left then replace the filter, refuel, and add some biocide and fuel conditioner. The truck seems to run fine at this point. I'm thinking that the lift pump failure and the brown fuel are coincidental. I'll be keeping an eye on the color of the fuel. Very odd...



Steve

 

[illflem]

I'm no artist but doesn't red + green = brown? Could your last batch have been a mix of off road and commercial fuel? Or am I way off?