ULSD lubricity additives options

[steved]

why are we talking about ulsd when we can run 100 % bio diesel also if 100%biodiesel will work so will 100% vegoil

Maybe because 90% of us can't readily/conveniently get bio????



I know for a fact that unless I drive over 45 minutes, there isn't a single station around me with bio at the pump... and driving that said 45 minutes would require me filling something besides the truck, as they don't have a dispenser pump (makes me wonder just how fresh the stuff would be).



It isn't a matter of running bio or not running bio, make it convenient and I would run a blended #2/bio too. But I'm not driving 45 minutes for something that will COST ME MORE MONEY anyway (it is more expensive that #2 around here)...



As for sulfur as a lubricant... sulfur is a contaminant in diesel... the only reason they are just now removing it is the fact that it costs a lot of money to remove it (an extra refining step) and it didn't hurt anything (until they decreased the emissions numbers)...



steved

 

[steved]

the frist two have been taken care of but the next one has not THE INJECTION PUMPS ARE NOT LIKING THIS FUEL.

Show me, on this forum or any other, a SIGNIFICANT increase in the number of injector/IP failures as I surely haven't read about them (and surely 10 months is long enough to find out if it is going to severly affect those components). If the fuel was as bad as you make it out to be, then there would be thousands of members on this boards like this one crying about failed components... while it might affect the overall longevity (over say arbitrarily 500k miles), I haven't seen people burning up IPs on one or two tanks of ULSD like you make it sound.



Most of us have been running ULSD for a while and didn't even know it... my dad has been getting ULSD for well over 2 years (he asked the guy who owns the station) in his 99 and very rarely uses additives... he has 255k on his original VP44...



steved

 

[Champane Flight]

Buna, vs Viton

A lot of the problem with your old bunaN seals is cold weather. We had to change from buna n to viton on all our drybreaks on our loading dock. It seems they were built from the facotry with Buna O-rings, they all should have had Viton. . The cold hits the Buna and it shrinks/hardens to the point of leaks.

 

[Matt400]

I'm a truck engine tech at a Cat dealer and the amount of fuel system failures is going up so fast it's making my head spin.

Thats not very encouraging. It may be possible that the commercial fleets would start to see trouble before the rest of the public with their equipment moving a much larger volume of the new fuel per piece.

 

[mhuggler]

Thats not very encouraging. It may be possible that the commercial fleets would start to see trouble before the rest of the public with their equipment moving a much larger volume of the new fuel per piece.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[mhuggler]

Show me, on this forum or any other, a SIGNIFICANT increase in the number of injector/IP failures as I surely haven't read about them (and surely 10 months is long enough to find out if it is going to severly affect those components). If the fuel was as bad as you make it out to be, then there would be thousands of members on this boards like this one crying about failed components... while it might affect the overall longevity (over say arbitrarily 500k miles), I haven't seen people burning up IPs on one or two tanks of ULSD like you make it sound.



Most of us have been running ULSD for a while and didn't even know it... my dad has been getting ULSD for well over 2 years (he asked the guy who owns the station) in his 99 and very rarely uses additives... he has 255k on his original VP44...



steved

Be patient. The significant increase in failures that your looking for is just around the corner. You also may want to check out how sulphur is removed from the fuel. This process itself is what turns the fuel into liquid garbage. I'm not trying to start a heated debate with you; I just honestly think your in for disappointment.

 

[AndrewKing]

Sulfa Tabs any good?

HI,

I was wondering if any of you have tried "Sulfa Tabs" by King Petrochem?... . I saw these bottles at a local truck store / repair facility... . They look like little

capsules filled with I guess sulphur... . Instructions call for 1 tablet for every 25

gallons of diesel fuel... Bottle of 180 tablets sells for $49. 95... . Seems interesting just wondering if anybody has tried these and what your results were.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[Champane Flight]

Waiting for failure?

Be patient. The significant increase in failures that your looking for is just around the corner. You also may want to check out how sulphur is removed from the fuel. This process itself is what turns the fuel into liquid garbage. I'm not trying to start a heated debate with you; I just honestly think your in for disappointment.

I really think you are looking for a heated debate. You might want to take a look at the technology involved in sulfur removal before calling the product liquid garbage. Europe has been selling ULSD for decades now, they have also had fuels with cetane ratings of over 50 for years.



http://www.coptechnologysolutions.com/sulfur_removal/szorb/index.htm

 

[AndrewKing]

Sulfa Tabs any good?....putting the sulfer back in

HI All... I posted this elsewhere too but since this thread seemed so busy I felt I might get some opinions from here as well... . Putting the sulfer back in to remedy the problem... .



HI,

I was wondering if any of you have tried "Sulfa Tabs" by King Petrochem?... . I saw these bottles at a local truck store / repair facility... . They look like little

capsules filled with I guess sulphur... . Instructions call for 1 tablet for every 25

gallons of diesel fuel... Bottle of 180 tablets sells for $49. 95... . Seems interesting just wondering if anybody has tried these and what your results were.

Thanks

Andrew

 

[rweis]

As I understand it, it is not the sulfur that is the problem, it is the removal of the sulfur PROCESS. I think adding sulfur back in is not going to help.



However if I could sell sulfur for $50 a bottle x 1,000's of bottles to the not real well informed, well that is business.



Bob Weis



my . 02

I feel the ULSF is a good thing in the big picture. There is going to be a transition to viton (and the mechanical problems of the transition) no doubt, but if we can use 1/3 less fuel (ie diesel) on a national scale that would be a good thing. The lubricity level will probably do a couple of iterations before it gets really right.

 

[Dl5treez]

Per the Chevron rep who fed us dinner tonight, well last night actually, the Chevron/Texaco ULS fuels will cause issues with the Buna N seals only due to the chemical make up... it's not a lubricity issue.



Per said rep, any and all Chevron fuels will exceed the ASTM lubricity standards--essentially the lubricity of the fuel will be the same or better as what we have now with the LS fuels, however, there most likely will be fuel leakage issues with older systems.



We're seeing it our fleet, limited to the CAT engines at the moment, but we're watching.....

 

[mhenon]

I feel the ULSF is a good thing in the big picture. There is going to be a transition to viton (and the mechanical problems of the transition) no doubt, but if we can use 1/3 less fuel (ie diesel) on a national scale that would be a good thing. The lubricity level will probably do a couple of iterations before it gets really right.

Exactly! We're all going through this period of transition and yes some of the older seals that have been on a steady diet of LSD will shrink and weep. The folks over on Freds TDI (the VW web-site) who have been burning 100% biodiesel and tried switching to D#2 found the same thing... seals leaked.

I'm one of the lucky ones in a way. My VP44 was changed, under warranty, right about the time Idaho switched over to ULSD. I started to notice how clear the diesel fuel had become (no lubricant added yet... . just flushing the pipeline) and didn't put 2+2 together at the time.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath. ULSD is here to stay, there are options (bio, bio blends, additives, etc) and the diesel engine is here to stay. . with a few small changes along the way. Relax... . it's all good!!

Mike