ULSD lubricity additives options

[Matt400]

We do not have the equipment for HFRR testing

I guess I am confused then because I thought that was the industry standard for determining the wear index. If your sending none treated fuel off for testing on what to add then maybe there is some other way of establishing lubricity of the FED recommended 520 but that still leaves Bosh recommendation of 460 or better.

 

[Champane Flight]

Tested and retested

I guess I am confused then because I thought that was the industry standard for determining the wear index. If your sending none treated fuel off for testing on what to add then maybe there is some other way of establishing lubricity of the FED recommended 520 but that still leaves Bosh recommendation of 460 or better.

The basic fuel lubricity on each batch has been tested and established at the refinerys, it is then sampled and retested at the terminals to insure proper lubricity is injected. Additive companys inject said amount of additive and check lubricity levels, then send us results, to either continue same injection rate, or bump it up or down. Like I have stated we are always above and beyond government standards. Last results I have seen was well below your 460. . In the range of 400 and less. .

 

[cj hall]

read this

Alternatives to Conventional Number 2 Diesel Fuel



The five most common alternatives to conventional number 2 diesel fuel include ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel (ULSD), biodiesel (B20), number 1 diesel fuel, compressed natural gas (CNG), and propane. Below is a description of these five fuels and the costs and benefits to fleet operators. These fuels show great promise, but if you have any questions about the viability of using an alternative to conventional diesel in your fleet, you should contact your Original Engine Manufacturer (OEM).



Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD)



Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) is diesel fuel that has had the sulfur content reduced from approximately 500 parts per million (ppm) sulfur to 15 ppm sulfur. This cleaner diesel fuel will be available nationwide in 2006 before new diesel vehicles are introduced to meet the U. S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) 2007 emissions standards. These 2007 standards require significant emissions reductions in heavy-duty diesel trucks and buses, which will be accomplished through the use of after-market equipment, such as particulate filters and oxidation catalysts. In order to achieve the greatest emissions reductions, ULSD must be utilized. This fuel can be used in all diesel engines with little or no modification to the engine or fuel system.



The primary benefit of using ULSD is emissions reductions. Using ULSD fuel without particulate filters or oxidation catalysts could provide up to a 13 percent reduction in particulate matter (PM), a 13 percent reduction in hydrocarbons (HC), a 6 percent reduction in carbon monoxide (CO), and a 3 percent reduction in nitrogen oxide (NOx). If ULSD is used with particulate filters or oxidation catalysts, the reductions are 20 – 80 percent in PM, 90 percent in HC, 90 percent in CO, and 15 – 20 percent in NOx.



There are some potential drawbacks to using ULSD fuel. These drawbacks include cost, availability, lubricity, and cold flow properties. At this time, the cost of ULSD is difficult to estimate due to the fact it is not available in Colorado. EPA estimates “that when fully implemented the sulfur reduction requirement will increase the cost of producing and distributing diesel fuel by about five cents per gallon. ” Other sources indicate this cost per gallon will be higher. This increased cost is due to additional refining costs to remove the sulfur from the fuel. Another issue hindering the widespread use of ULSD at this time is the availability of the fuel. Currently the fuel is available in limited parts of the country, primarily on the east coast. At this time, the fuel is not available in Colorado.



The process used to refine ULSD also results in a loss of lubricity, which could potentially result fuel system component wear. However, additives or blending ULSD with biodiesel increases the lubricity of ULSD. Puget Sound Clean Cities reports that they have not encountered any problems with ULSD when properly formulated with additives or biodiesel. Other potential issues with ULSD are the cold flow properties. In cold weather, the cloud point of ULSD is higher than conventional diesel. Therefore, ULSD may require added precautions, such as additives or heated storage tanks, when the ambient temperature gets very low.



Biodiesel (B20)



“Biodiesel” is a clean-burning fuel containing no sulfur or aromatic compounds. It is produced from a number of renewable sources including soybean oil, rapeseed oil, and animal fats. These sources can be obtained from agricultural feedstocks or by recycling used oil, such as cooking grease. The most common form of biodiesel found in the United States is derived from soybean oil.



Biodiesel can be used in its pure form, B100 or “neat biodiesel,” or blended with conventional diesel. The most common blend is B20, which contains 20 percent biodiesel blended with 80 percent conventional diesel. The major advantage of B20 when compared to other alternative fuels is that it can be used in any diesel engine with little or no modification to the engine or fuel system.



Most Original Engine Manufacturers (OEM) have issued statements that support the use of biodiesel in certain percentages. However, biodiesel could impact certain elastomers and natural rubber compounds in the fuel system. When biodiesel fuels are used, the condition of seals, hoses, gaskets, and wire coatings should be monitored regularly. According to the National Biodiesel Board’s experience, there is no impact on these components when using B20 and lower. Currently, OEMs are switching to components suitable for use with low-sulfur and biodiesel fuel.



The benefits of B20 include enhanced lubricity, fuel system cleaning properties, and environmental benefits. Changes in diesel fuel, primarily the reduction of sulfur and aromatic levels, and the process used to reduce these pollutants have reduced the lubricity of diesel fuel. However, the addition of biodiesel, even in smaller quantities than B20, increases fuel lubricity. This increased lubricity can increase the life of heavy-duty engines. In addition to enhanced lubricity, biodiesel acts as a solvent and cleans engine systems. This can cause fuel filter clogs when biodiesel is first used so fuel filters should be monitored.



A final advantage of using biodiesel is the environmental benefit. EPA’s draft report, “A Comprehensive Analysis of Biodiesel Impacts on Exhaust Emissions” from October of 2002 indicates that soybean-based B20 reduces particulate matter by 10 percent, hydrocarbons by 21 percent, and carbon monoxide by 11 percent. Nitrogen oxide is increased by 2 percent.



Potential drawbacks with biodiesel use include cost, cold flow properties, fuel economy, and shelf life. The cost to add a percentage point of biodiesel to conventional diesel is $0. 01. Therefore, the additional cost to add up to 20 percent biodiesel, B20, to conventional diesel fuel is approximately $0. 20. As more refiners of this fuel enter the market, fuel prices should decrease.



Other potential drawbacks of B20 are cold flow properties. These cold flow properties arise when diesel fuel, including both biodiesel and conventional diesel fuels, are used in very cold temperatures. According to the United States Department of Agriculture, the cold filter plugging point of B20 is approximately 7 degrees warmer than with conventional diesel. However, this small increase in the temperature at which B20 starts to freeze compared to conventional diesel does not present problems for most users. In Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Five Seasons Transportation began using B20 during one of the coldest winters on record with temperatures at -20 degrees Fahrenheit. They made no changes to their operation, other than incorporating 20 percent biodiesel into their existing fleet, and had no significant problems for 1. 4 million miles of operation.



Another drawback of using biodiesel is fuel economy. Overall, conventional diesel contains more energy content, and therefore provides higher fuel economy than biodiesel. According to EPA, plant-based B20 contains more energy content than animal-based B20. This energy content has a direct relation on fuel economy with plant-based biodiesel providing better fuel economy than animal-based biodiesel. EPA estimates that the fuel economy penalty for B20 is between 1. 6 percent (plant-based biodiesel) - 2. 15 percent (animal-based biodiesel). However, B20 has a higher cetane number than conventional diesel, which increases the engine’s performance to balance some of the energy loss.



A final potential issue with B20 is shelf life. The current industry standard is that biodiesel should be used within six months. Most fuel is used long before six months so this should not present a problem unless an operator is storing fuel for a long period of time. If this is the case, fleet operators should test the fuel prior to use.



If you have any questions about the use of biodiesel fuel in a specific engine, contact your OEM and/or the National Biodiesel Board at (800) 841-5849.



Sources



National Biodiesel Board – www.biodiesel.org

Puget Sound Clean Cities Coalition – www.cityofseattle.net/cleancities

U. S EPA Office of Transportation and Air Quality – www.epa.gov/otaq



sure this is old news but it says this about ulsd There are some potential drawbacks to using ULSD fuel. These drawbacks include cost, availability, lubricity, and cold flow properties. the cost will i wont go in to that. the availabilty will they got that fixed the last two are the ones they need to fix and they wont because it not there problem its some one else problem

if you need heated storage tanks you might as will run svo or wvo this is not a fix to the problem

read the full story here

http://www.cleanairfleets.org/altfuels.html

 

[Msilbernagel]

cj,



I thought it was just me... I've been running ULSD for a while now, and last week was running nearly 100% ULSD #2 for a tank due to circumstances; in the middle of some repairs. I got the truck fixed this week, and moved back to 50/50 with WVO blend.



What caught me by surprise was that my fuel pressure went up! It's in the high-20s low 30s at night, and I'm used to the blended fuel being a bit thicker and bringing the fp down a bit (post-filter).



I wonder if the ULSD's changed CFPP accounts for the apparent change in flow characteristics I'm used to seeing in #2?



Mark

-

(snip)... Other potential issues with ULSD are the cold flow properties. In cold weather, the cloud point of ULSD is higher than conventional diesel. Therefore, ULSD may require added precautions, such as additives or heated storage tanks, when the ambient temperature gets very low.



Sources: National Biodiesel Board – www.biodiesel.org

Puget Sound Clean Cities Coalition – www.cityofseattle.net/cleancities

U. S EPA Office of Transportation and Air Quality – www.epa.gov/otaq

full story here: http://www.cleanairfleets.org/altfuels.html

 

[cj hall]

other countrys views on ulsd

Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel, Biodiesel and Warranties



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I’m posting this very long thread as I hope it may explain a few things that I think are essential to understand about the petro diesel that we will now be getting in Australia and how it is very similar in many ways to biodiesel in terms of vehicle compatibility issues. This is useful to know if you are discussing biodiesel with your manufacturer or dealer, or if you would just like to understand for yourself.



First of all, I’ll preface this by saying that biodiesel has no sulphur and is in many ways already far superior to the highly expensive and complex processes that goes into trying to remove the sulphur from distillate (the mineral diesel that people are used to buying, which is really called “distillate”, not “diesel” as it is constantly branded). I’m only posting this thread as I think that most people who are interested in biodiesel need to be aware of “Low Sulphur Diesel” (LSD) and “Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel” (ULSD).



Why is sulphur so bad?

Sulphur in fuels is nasty when it is burned. Not only does it come out as toxic emissions, causing acid rain and other health hazards, but it also interferers with the ability of a catalytic converter to remove other bad stuff in the exhaust emissions. The catalytic converter in a modern engine sits in the exhaust pipe and helps to get rid of the yucky stuff that is not fully burned. Sulphur can choke this catalytic converter up and prevent it from doing its job. This is why many of the older diesel engines do not have the ability to clean their emissions very well – they were designed for a fuel with a high sulphur content.



Why is sulphur so good?

Lubrication. In the olden days, before everyone realised how horribly toxic petro fuels were and woke up to biodiesel, the pre-LSD fuel did a reasonably good job of lubrication. Diesel engines require a certain amount of “lubricity” from their fuel to keep things running smoothly.



What happens when the sulphur is removed?

To remove the sulphur firstly requires political pressure. The major fuel suppliers will market themselves as the saviours of the planet because they will fall into line with government regulations to clean up their product. In actual fact, removing the sulphur from the fuel is a difficult and costly process for them that requires extra refining. The process of removing the sulphur is called “sweetening”. Most commonly, this involves using hydrogen gas to change the sulphur into hydrogen sulphide (H2S), which is also called “hydrofining”. The H2S is then removed from the distillate for further processing. The process of removing the sulphur also reduces the lubricity of the fuel.



How does this effect engines?

Not only does the lubricity drop, requiring additional additives to the fuel to prevent engine problems, but in older engines, problems can be encountered with hoses and seals going brittle and shrinking. The process of removing sulphur from the fuel has now changed the fuel’s properties. If any components in the fuel system are made from natural rubber (also known as "NBR" or "buna-n" or "nitrile" rubber) then they can encounter problems. Seals in injector pumps can shrink, go brittle and leak with LSD or ULSD.



What are the manufacturers doing about this?

Since the mid 90s (dates vary), most manufacturers have been using components made from synthetic materials, such as FKM (also known as Viton). These materials do not suffer from the above problems. As such, most newer cars do not have a problem with LSD/ULSD.



What is the difference between LSD and ULSD?

Simply put, ULSD has 10 times less sulphur than LSD. LSD permits 500 parts per million (ppm) of sulphur. ULSD permits 50ppm. Before this, the maximum sulphur content in distillate was 5000ppm!



this is from a country that has 50 ppm diesel fuel usa is even worst than this

 

[Msilbernagel]

Hello,



Personally, my concern regarding the effects of poor lubricity goes beyond injectors to the high-pressure fuel pump - the CP3 (in my case). At $2k a pop, they're a bit more spendy than a lift-pump and a tad tougher to R&R in my garage.



As for the injectors, I don't know if there is a connection between lubricity and injector failure, but the accounts I've read on TDR from the one's who've had them wash the cylinders or burn holes in pistons would have be concerned for their health as well.



By the way CF - I do appreciate hearing from someone in your position who can speak for (albeit unofficially) the fuel industry. It's informative and I enjoy the learning.



Regards,



Mark

--

(snip)...

cj, ULSD is basically the same as your 500ppm LSD, minus the sulfur, the old trucks such as mine can handle it just fine, the only thing lubricated by fuel is the top of the plungers, and the injector face. Very little to worry about, and as I have stated that is taken care of.

 

[Champane Flight]

Where and who?

Alternatives to Conventional Number 2 Diesel Fuel



There are some potential drawbacks to using ULSD fuel. These drawbacks include cost, availability, lubricity, and cold flow properties. At this time, the cost of ULSD is difficult to estimate due to the fact it is not available in Colorado. EPA estimates “that when fully implemented the sulfur reduction requirement will increase the cost of producing and distributing diesel fuel by about five cents per gallon. ” Other sources indicate this cost per gallon will be higher. This increased cost is due to additional refining costs to remove the sulfur from the fuel. Another issue hindering the widespread use of ULSD at this time is the availability of the fuel. Currently the fuel is available in limited parts of the country, primarily on the east coast. At this time, the fuel is not available in Colorado.



The process used to refine ULSD also results in a loss of lubricity, which could potentially result fuel system component wear. However, additives or blending ULSD with biodiesel increases the lubricity of ULSD. Puget Sound Clean Cities reports that they have not encountered any problems with ULSD when properly formulated with additives or biodiesel. Other potential issues with ULSD are the cold flow properties. In cold weather, the cloud point of ULSD is higher than conventional diesel. Therefore, ULSD may require added precautions, such as additives or heated storage tanks, when the ambient temperature gets very low.



Biodiesel (B20)



“Biodiesel” is a clean-burning fuel containing no sulfur or aromatic compounds. It is produced from a number of renewable sources including soybean oil, rapeseed oil, and animal fats. These sources can be obtained from agricultural feedstocks or by recycling used oil, such as cooking grease. The most common form of biodiesel found in the United States is derived from soybean oil.



Biodiesel can be used in its pure form, B100 or “neat biodiesel,” or blended with conventional diesel. The most common blend is B20, which contains 20 percent biodiesel blended with 80 percent conventional diesel. The major advantage of B20 when compared to other alternative fuels is that it can be used in any diesel engine with little or no modification to the engine or fuel system.



Most Original Engine Manufacturers (OEM) have issued statements that support the use of biodiesel in certain percentages. However, biodiesel could impact certain elastomers and natural rubber compounds in the fuel system. When biodiesel fuels are used, the condition of seals, hoses, gaskets, and wire coatings should be monitored regularly. According to the National Biodiesel Board’s experience, there is no impact on these components when using B20 and lower. Currently, OEMs are switching to components suitable for use with low-sulfur and biodiesel fuel.



The benefits of B20 include enhanced lubricity, fuel system cleaning properties, and environmental benefits. Changes in diesel fuel, primarily the reduction of sulfur and aromatic levels, and the process used to reduce these pollutants have reduced the lubricity of diesel fuel. However, the addition of biodiesel, even in smaller quantities than B20, increases fuel lubricity. This increased lubricity can increase the life of heavy-duty engines. In addition to enhanced lubricity, biodiesel acts as a solvent and cleans engine systems. This can cause fuel filter clogs when biodiesel is first used so fuel filters should be monitored.



A final advantage of using biodiesel is the environmental benefit. EPA’s draft report, “A Comprehensive Analysis of Biodiesel Impacts on Exhaust Emissions” from October of 2002 indicates that soybean-based B20 reduces particulate matter by 10 percent, hydrocarbons by 21 percent, and carbon monoxide by 11 percent. Nitrogen oxide is increased by 2 percent.



Potential drawbacks with biodiesel use include cost, cold flow properties, fuel economy, and shelf life. The cost to add a percentage point of biodiesel to conventional diesel is $0. 01. Therefore, the additional cost to add up to 20 percent biodiesel, B20, to conventional diesel fuel is approximately $0. 20. As more refiners of this fuel enter the market, fuel prices should decrease.



Other potential drawbacks of B20 are cold flow properties. These cold flow properties arise when diesel fuel, including both biodiesel and conventional diesel fuels, are used in very cold temperatures. According to the United States Department of Agriculture, the cold filter plugging point of B20 is approximately 7 degrees warmer than with conventional diesel. However, this small increase in the temperature at which B20 starts to freeze compared to conventional diesel does not present problems for most users. In Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Five Seasons Transportation began using B20 during one of the coldest winters on record with temperatures at -20 degrees Fahrenheit. They made no changes to their operation, other than incorporating 20 percent biodiesel into their existing fleet, and had no significant problems for 1. 4 million miles of operation.



Another drawback of using biodiesel is fuel economy. Overall, conventional diesel contains more energy content, and therefore provides higher fuel economy than biodiesel. According to EPA, plant-based B20 contains more energy content than animal-based B20. This energy content has a direct relation on fuel economy with plant-based biodiesel providing better fuel economy than animal-based biodiesel. EPA estimates that the fuel economy penalty for B20 is between 1. 6 percent (plant-based biodiesel) - 2. 15 percent (animal-based biodiesel). However, B20 has a higher cetane number than conventional diesel, which increases the engine’s performance to balance some of the energy loss.



A final potential issue with B20 is shelf life. The current industry standard is that biodiesel should be used within six months. Most fuel is used long before six months so this should not present a problem unless an operator is storing fuel for a long period of time. If this is the case, fleet operators should test the fuel prior to use.



If you have any questions about the use of biodiesel fuel in a specific engine, contact your OEM and/or the National Biodiesel Board at (800) 841-5849.



Sources



National Biodiesel Board – www.biodiesel.org

Puget Sound Clean Cities Coalition – www.cityofseattle.net/cleancities

U. S EPA Office of Transportation and Air Quality – www.epa.gov/otaq



sure this is old news but it says this about ulsd There are some potential drawbacks to using ULSD fuel. These drawbacks include cost, availability, lubricity, and cold flow properties. the cost will i wont go in to that. the availabilty will they got that fixed the last two are the ones they need to fix and they wont because it not there problem its some one else problem

if you need heated storage tanks you might as will run svo or wvo this is not a fix to the problem

read the full story here

http://www.cleanairfleets.org/altfuels.html

Your sources are flawed, ULSD has been available in Colorado for the last ten months, cloud points and freeze points are the same in ULSD as it was in LSD, and HSD. There you go with the lack of lubricity claims again, your begining to sound like a broken record, you have no proof, yet you go on and on. . OK, you have opened a new avenue, prove you can make a gallon of bio cheaper than the wholesale cost of a gallon of ULSD. . Also prove you cannot get a gallon of ULSD in Colorado. . Also prove that ULSD has a higher freeze point than bio, or for that matter LSD or HSD... The truth is, you can't. .



The last issue of TDR has a very good article on fuels . .

 

[tgordon]

CF, where I get my fuel they advertise it as 50 cetane #2. If I wanted to read long articles I would subscribe to the magazines. Why is it that the fuels sold at the pump aren't even to the standards of people who understand the fuels? That concerns me as a consumer and personally will drive me to keep my giant tank filled with fuel from a reputable supplier. As for no concern about lubricity, that may be so ont the P1700, but lets go back a little bit further. Those are not the only injection pumps used! Ibelive the rotary injection pumps are compltely lubed by the fuel, this includes the governer.



As for warranties, IAMOWS.



As for the prices they are very scewed, a year ago I could by B20 cheaper than petro, and today at the same station B20 was only a penny more a gallon. IMHO I will stick with the B20 from a reputable supplier, they use it in their own delivery trucks.

 

[cj hall]

man i guess i have to hold your hand and read this to you



There are some potential drawbacks to using ULSD fuel. These drawbacks include cost, availability, lubricity, and cold flow properties



the frist two have been taken care of but the next one has not THE INJECTION PUMPS ARE NOT LIKING THIS FUEL.



To remove the sulphur firstly requires political pressure. The major fuel suppliers will market themselves as the saviours of the planet because they will fall into line with government regulations to clean up their product. In actual fact, removing the sulphur from the fuel is a difficult and costly process for them that requires extra refining. The process of removing the sulphur is called “sweetening”. Most commonly, this involves using hydrogen gas to change the sulphur into hydrogen sulphide (H2S), which is also called “hydrofining”. The H2S is then removed from the distillate for further processing. The process of removing the sulphur also reduces the lubricity of the fuel.



How does this effect engines?

Not only does the lubricity drop, requiring additional additives to the fuel to prevent engine problems, but in older engines, problems can be encountered with hoses and seals going brittle and shrinking. The process of removing sulphur from the fuel has now changed the fuel’s properties. If any components in the fuel system are made from natural rubber (also known as "NBR" or "buna-n" or "nitrile" rubber) then they can encounter problems. Seals in injector pumps can shrink, go brittle and leak with LSD or ULSD. DID THIS HAPPEN THE FIRST TIME THEY MADE THE FUEL WITH LESS SULPHUR ???? YES IT DID .



THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOT ALL OF THE DIESELS OUT THERE ARE BRAND NEW SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE DONT WANT NEW TRUCKS AND OR CAN NOT AFFORD THEM . EVERY TIME THE GOVT. STICKES IT NOSE IN SOME THING WE PAY FOR IT,WILL I AM SICK AND TIRED OF PAYING FOR STUFF I DONT WANT. THEN YOU SIT THERE TELLING US THE FUEL IS JUST FINE FOR OLDER ENGINES THAT IS B. S. EXXON/CONOCO/ ALL THE OTHERS DONT GIVE A DAM ABOUT THE THE PROBLEMS THEY MAKE FOR THOSE USING THERE FUEL ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MAKING MONEY. GREED BOYS JUST GOOD OLD GREED

 

[cj hall]

here you go cf

Early Warning

Lift Pump Leakage Due to Ultra Low Sulfur

Diesel Fuel

Summary of the Early Warning

This Early Warning informs the field of a potential lift pump fuel leak, if a customer switches to

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel after using Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) fuel.

Affected Engines

This warning affects ISB and QSB CM550, ISC, QSC, ISL, and QSL CM554 engines.

Symptoms and Observations

If a fleet changes fuel from LSD to ULSD, the lift pump can leak between the bracket and the

lift pump body or at the electrical connector.

Failure Verification

If a fuel leak appears on the lift pump, determine if the customer has begun to use ULSD fuel

recently.

Early Warning Number Revision Level Date

E05033 03-AUG-2005

Engine Family Fuel System

6B, B5. 9

6C, C8. 3

ISL, QSL9

Bosch VP44 - ISB

CAPS - ISC, QSC8. 3, ISL, QSL9

Bosch VP44 - ISB

Design Application Market Application

Automotive All

Industrial Agriculture

Industrial Construction

Marine Propulsion Marine

Suspected Cause

There is a nitrile gasket between the lift pump body and the bracket. Once the nitrile gasket

absorbs fuel, the gasket expands and seals. If the fuel type is changed from LSD to ULSD, the

nitrile gasket will shrink and no longer seal, causing a fuel leak.

Potential Component Damage Assessment

None

Repair Instructions

To avoid fuel leaks when changing to ULSD fuel, customers ought to consider replacing the lift

pump as well. The table below lists the present part numbers for 12-VDC and 24-VDC lift

pumps.

Requested Failure Information

None

Last Modified: 08-Aug-2005

Copyright© 2005

Cummins, Inc.

All rights reserved

Lift Pump Part Numbers

Engine Family VDC Part Number

ISC, ISL, QSL, QSC 12 3949085 and 3939894

ISC, ISL, QSL, QSC 24 3939898 and 3949086

ISB, QSB 12 3990105

ISB, QSB 24 3990106



this is from cummins inc.

this is the web site it is found at i tryed to link it but it will not work

http://www.blueridgediesel.com/CUMMINS TSB_082905[1].pdf



this took me about 15 mins to find yes it from 2005 so it has happened very early in the change over i just do know what more i can say



cj hall

 

[Champane Flight]

These are your words...

Hello Tlanier

I would put something in there.

Some people out there think the fuel the way it comes from the refinery is the best thing you can run.

A gallon of Clean Veg Oil unused would be the way I would go but I would use around 3 gallons, this will bring the lube way up on the the ULSD fuel. the sulphur was the lube in the fuel.



I went to the dodge dealer today the tell the head mec about a problem I have with my 05 (high soot levels in the oil) more on this later in the dse in truck 04-05 ctd. I ask him about the new fuel and if he has seen any problems with it. I got an ear full about that and he has ten trucks needing new IP pumps he said lack of lube in the fuel and walked away. He had a pump in his hand . Dodge says add something,Cummins says add something,all of them say add somethig to make it better.



just my thoughts



cj hall

This is not the bulletin I wanted, I want to see where Dodge and Cummins say to add something to the fuel...

 

[cj hall]

fuel problems

Hello Champane Flight



You know as will as I do that Dodge/Cummins/ any auto maker will not put that in a Tech Bulletin if they did they would have to buy it for you. thats the law





can you read



no problems with ulsd ,ya thats it



cj hall

 

[Duluth Diesel]

Hello Champane Flight



You know as will as I do that Dodge/Cummins/ any auto maker will not put that in a Tech Bulletin if they did they would have to buy it for you. thats the law





can you read



no problems with ulsd , git your head out of your



cj hall

Boy this is getting intelligent.

 

[Dl5treez]

Guys, keep it above board..... we can have a debate without making it personal.



Please and thank you.



Dan C.

moderator

 

[cj hall]

sorry to all of you that might take this the wrong way



again i am sorry



cj hall

 

[Champane Flight]

I guess

sorry to all of you that might take this the wrong way



again i am sorry



cj hall

I can send you a new ConocoPhillips baseball cap if you want one cj?

 

[mhenon]

Our lubricity levels are not set by the oil company, but by the additive supplier. We have to send a sample of ULSD before lubricity into them every week, they test and set injection rates. They have told us our ULSD is up to standard without addiitves, we still inject because of lower #s of conductivity. So there is plenty of lubricity in ULSD, no butter and pam is needed. .

I use additives myself, just because it makes my engines sound and run smoother. Plus it gives me that added protection in the winter months. I also keep my tank full to prevent condensation. Amsoil cetane booster and diesel modifier.

Actually this is very encouraging. I will continue to add a lubricant to ULSD (just to be on the safe side) but it looks like for the most part. . it's addressed.

Thanks for the info CF.

Mike

 

[mhuggler]

Not trying to start any arguements here, but I thought I'd give you guys a heads up. I'm a truck engine tech at a Cat dealer and the amount of fuel system failures is going up so fast it's making my head spin. Mostly what I'm seeing is injector pintle seizures and seal leakage. This is occuring on engine models that previously were not known for these kinds of failures. The only thing that has changed is the switch to ulsd(I interviewed as many operators as I could). Everyone has the right to do whatever they want; but as for me, I'm putting two and two together and stocking up on some good additives for my truck.

 

[Dl5treez]

We've had two '95 model 3406B's lose nozzles in the last month... . unfortunately one wasn't caught until it filled the oil pan with 6 gallons of fuel... now it has new rods & mains to go along with the nozzles.



Have you noticed a surge of pass-thru connector leaks? We're getting them like crazy on our B's... . wondering if something might be up with that, too... . gosh knows the buna N seals are going out like wildfire.

Not trying to start any arguements here, but I thought I'd give you guys a heads up. I'm a truck engine tech at a Cat dealer and the amount of fuel system failures is going up so fast it's making my head spin. Mostly what I'm seeing is injector pintle seizures and seal leakage. This is occuring on engine models that previously were not known for these kinds of failures. The only thing that has changed is the switch to ulsd(I interviewed as many operators as I could). Everyone has the right to do whatever they want; but as for me, I'm putting two and two together and stocking up on some good additives for my truck.

 

[mhuggler]

We've had two '95 model 3406B's lose nozzles in the last month... . unfortunately one wasn't caught until it filled the oil pan with 6 gallons of fuel... now it has new rods & mains to go along with the nozzles.



Have you noticed a surge of pass-thru connector leaks? We're getting them like crazy on our B's... . wondering if something might be up with that, too... . gosh knows the buna N seals are going out like wildfire.

Just got a C-12 in the other night pumping fuel past the injector o-rings. All that fuel sure cleans the inside of the engine up pretty good. :-laf No failures on the b model connector tube seals yet, but the o-rings on top of the pump group bonnets are going like hot cakes! That and our inventory of injectors is pretty much non-existent.