ULTIMATE FIRST GEN - Lead Engineer for a day...

["Mad Max"]

So I was a'thinkin' , knowing what we know now about 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen rigs, and even the old-iron Power Wagons, I thought I'd pose this little diddy for us to ponder... .



If you could build a brand new 1st gen rig... ... now, in 2005... ... what would you keep from 1st gen (or earlier) era... . and what would you incorporate from the time between then and now?? I know there are some things from the 1st gen era I would want in the new trucks, and vice versa. What do y'all think??



Keep:

- Square, 'Power Wagon' body and edges

- Narrow A-pillar and big, easy-to-see-out-of windshield (fuel mileage doesn't seem to be affected by the cab-forward design - I still get 20 mpg)

- Metal door handles, but upgrade the internal linkage.

- Old-school dually flares (I just think they were the best-looking part of a dually!)

- Manual locking hubs and manual-shifting '205' transfer cases (no vacuum hoses in sight)

- Single batteries and LOTS of engine space

- 4-door crew cabs and 8-foot beds... . the REAL ones

- Big, heavy, weldable and drillable frames



Add:

- Bulletproof, lock-up automatic transmission and factory exhaust brakes

- 40/20/40 seats

- LED lights

- Better easy-access controls for engine/transmission functions (O/D, exhaust brake, water/meth... )

- Factory dash/pod options for auxillary gauges (pyro, transmission, tach, oil, water)

- 4-wheel disc brakes



... . anyways, there's some of my thoughts . I'm keeping my 1st gen alive forever, and upgrading it with all kinds of newer things, but it'll still be a 1st gen. What do y'all think??

- Sam

 

[Greenleaf]

You have more time on your hands than I.



Scott

 

[JLEONARD]

Sam... I hate you for starting this bud...

Keep:

blunt force trauma look

12 valves

reliable mechanical lift pump

My current annual property tax bill and insurance rate



Add/change/invent:

P pump that is electronically "tunable" (read that BOMBable) via windows based software...

Lightweight hydroformed frame (this would be stiffer than traditional type) that is modular for wheelbase length/body configurations.

Fiberglass/polymer body panels... . galvanized coated steel pickup box with duraliner standard

Modular rear axle that can be quickly modified to dually... with added fiberglass fenders (old school style)

Ground effects to improve highway mileage

Sams bullet proof auto transmission and e brake system

Standard pyro,boost,transmission temp, etc.

Modular dash panel so adding switches/fuses for meth,propane, whatever are easy.

4 wheel disc brakes have to be standard

Nut plates in frame standard for Reese hitches, goosnecks and 5th wheels.

I like the LED lights

No stereo... just a rect hole and wireing built in so we can buy our own cheaper and better than factory.

Several options for wheel/tire sizes and combinations. might as well have them auto adjustable for pressure.

Loud freakin' air horn (in the engine compartment) standard.





I think it would qualify as a 4th gen



I ran out of time.

 

[bgilbert]

Definately keep the old body style. I love the big hood out in front of me. Don't forget to upgrade the manual transmission. Oh wait they just did that- a new Getrag G56



Add: P-pump, better seats, true crew cab plus 4wd and longbed crew.



Maybe DC will come out with a 'CLASSIC'. Like Freightliner did with their Classic. Long nose big hood, long wheel base like trucks of old time.

 

[DKasper]

Oh boy Sam -- don't you have enough to do? This is fun . . .

Keep all the stuff Sam & Jay noted. I'd go with adding:

- 40/20/40 seats

- p-pump

- a setting on the climate control that allows mixed heater/defrost -- I miss that from the '99

- Dana 80 rear end

- I like the gauge pod idea

- I like the LED lights too

- external plug outlet option for the engine heater

- Big enough battery tray for a D-8 battery

- The Ram hood ornament!



That's about all I'd change -- I love these trucks!

 

[TKingsbury]

Keep:

1st gen body with standard, club, and crew cabs available

Dana 60 front with manual hubs

Add:

Long or short bed option on all, including dually

Cup holders

Optional inst. cluster with round aftermarket style gauges (like my '71 had)

Better seating

Adjustable upper seat belt mount

High horsepower standard-12v for simplicity or if electronic MUST be commonrail.

Smoother riding 4x4 model, coil or leaf front no matter as long as it's smooth (so the cupholders are useful)

Heavier rear diff

More gears, 1st choice 5 spd w/factory gear splitter, or 2nd a 6 speed

Factory E-brake

Optional "Macho" paint schemes

That would be a good start.

Travis. .

 

[1stgen4evr]

engineer for a day

Most all the other stuff and a few more beside those.

I really like the twin Ibeam axles on a PHURD.

Better seats.

No plastic on the grill.

Or, better grade plastic on anything that is plastic.

Really good chrome on the cab lights.

Everything that is shiny: real chrome on metal.

Tie downs in the bed.

A transmission with two more gears that will run as long as the Cummins.

Definitely Dana 80 with a 3. 07 option.

And move the shift stick back about ten inches or, two more cylinders on the Cummins (inline of course), that would get the shifter back.

More sound attenuation all around the cab.

A servicable heat/air system with a servicable air circulation filter.

More radiator.

More transmission cooling.

Side moulding that won't fall off.

Crew with real doors.

Or King cab that is really king and not just a prince.

Crew or king, wider doors.

Taller tires on Alcoas.

One size bigger ujoints.

A tad bigger steering wheel with adjustable up and down as well as tilt.

Longer rear springs.

Or air bags.

Split control on the air comfort ducting.

Leather.

A head liner that will not fall out unless the truck is burned to the ground.

Winch option.

Super heavy duty light switch.

One guage heavier wireing on all circuits and if there is a computer- - -

HE double toothpicks no!!! No computer. No abs.

All the beefy stuff that the aftermarket offers for the automatic.

Servicable and easy access instrument group and fuse pannel.

Loud turn indicator breaker.

Aux fuel tank.

Six foot and eight foot bed option on the Dually.

One guage heavier floor on the bed.

More substantial isolation rubber at all support points.

Strength ribs in the Crew cab top.

Better rear view mirror, perhaps two. Improved side mirrors.

Running boards.

Front wheel flares similar to the rear to match wider front tracking.

Dimmer switch on the floor.

Glove box door that doesn't rattle.

Power window and door locks moved up one inch.

Better (smoother) latching on the doors.

More substantial tailgate with better latches.

One inch taller cab height.

Same first gen looks.

Adjustable top point on seat belts.

Power and air ride seats.

Grill guard.



And a few I can't think of right now.



James

 

[dan brooks]

Sam... I hate you for starting this bud...



P pump that is electronically "tunable" (read that BOMBable) via windows based software...

Yeah, but where would you put the ALT, CTRL, and DEL keys? :-laf



A lot of good ideas, but I'd be happy with a lockup converter and exhaust brake, 4-wheel discs, and a P-pump.

 

[Paychk]

Fix The Electrics!!!!!

 

[MMiller]

I guess I don't know why you guys would mess with perfection. I still like my old VE, my getrag, and my leaf springs. Cup holders would be nice. I would just like to freshen my old ride up. Make her new again. I sure would take better care of her the second time around.



Shucks p-pumps are overrated, however a 6 speed or splitter would be nice. I would equip mine with locking front differntial. I like the nice tight LS in the rear. A dana 80 would be good. I would twin stick the 205 for low 2wd. Keep the manual hubs. Have to get 35 spine front outer axel shafts, chrome moly of course. A bullet proof twin disc slipper clutch, for the occasional "street class" truck pull. Keep the 12 valve. Add an exhaust brake- perferably one that goes under the valve cover that opens the exhaust valves- you know an TRUE Jake Brake! Lighten up the rear suspension a little, but still be able to haul heavy loads with out squatting. Trailer brake contoller that puts the trailer brakes on, depending on how far and hard you apply the pedal. Just like a semi truck.



I second James-NO COMPUTER CONTROL. Computers are for talking on the internet. Trucks are supposed to be mechanical, with screws to tweak, and parts to adjust. Levers through the floor that are hooked to linkages. No solenoids to shift the t-case. No computer controlled transmissions.



Michael

 

[Rick Comenzo]

Ultimate First Generation

Larger Intercooler, external voltage regulator, heavier/reinforced metal in the cowl area, no KDP, no clockspring in the steering column Rick.

 

[SGibson]

a W or D-600 option w/11r22. 5's, a 12 inch frame, 7&17. 5k axles, an 8. 3 and w/b's to 270" plus everything already mentioned

 

[royster]

thanks sam!



i like this kind of post. i agree with most suggestions. naturally, the old style body, 12V engine, crew cab, etc. must haves include: ram's head hood ornament that cannot be removed by the neighbourhood punks, selectable lockers front and back, disc brakes all around, coil springs with four link suspension, twin turbos, nice seats, 19. 5 wheels, and on and on...



thanks again, sam. it's great to dream... or build your own!



cheers all,



roy

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ok, so far, Mmiller is the ONLY one who is not on the "nasty list" since HE has remained true to the Ve... all you other guys... . 15RWHP PENALTY... AND NO WHINING !



PB.....



ps: how about this question... . "what makes a 1st Gen, a 1st Gen truck???"

Hmmm... . the ride, the noise, the seats, poor rear leg room... . and so on...

 

[Greenleaf]

First.



I aint said a thing against the 1st Gen, beloved truck. No penalty for me!!



Second.



If'n you think the 1st Gen trucks ain't got NO leg room... ... . you have not spent eleven years in a Ford Ranger!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!



-S

 

[Case500D]

As per BushWakrs idea, this is what makes my battle wagons the last of the true power wagons:



4" straight pipe rattling other people's windows,

300 ft/lb lugnuts that take a really big pipe to break loose (BTW, watch the mirrors when working on the front lugs),

the ability to still turn heads at 13 years old,

the wonderful duct tape drink holder stuck on the burnt orange carpet next to the hideously vibrating NP 205 shift lever,

wonderful engineer door latches that break and make everyone go through the driver's door (very convenient when two other guys are riding with you on a long trip),

the collection of trash, pop cans, tools, baling twine, duct tape, empty shotgun shells, hay dust, mud, more tools, 2004 farm tax records/receipts, and old coffee cups found in the unsittable extended cab,

and finally the ability to haul ***** (OK, my wife's mule and donkey in a trailer).



Yup, they are good trucks.



Jeremy

 

[1stgen4evr]

The VE pump

I might have inadvertently included the P pump by agreeing to "most of the other stuff" ,but the VE is fine with me. If I still have to suffer the 15 HP loss, I would get them back with the two extra cylinders. Those cylinders will probably fill the space left by Jay's empty slot for the radio. I'm thinking, move it to a center console that flares into the dash like some cars.



the ride, the noise, the seats, poor rear leg room... . and so on... Yeah, be careful what you wish for, you could wind up with it.



Love the first gens. Just like they are, they are better than the new ones. And afordable at that.



James

 

["Mad Max"]

oh Pastor my Pastor!! Hey I didn't say anything about swapping pumps :{ Man I don't want no HP penalties either :{ . I have enough problems with not driving my truck!! Okay, I'll say three 'hail Mopars' and dip my typing fingers in holy water (#2 o'course) if you'll just forgive the indiscression LONG LIVE THE VE!!

I like the VE pumps - remind me of carbs - nice and simple, and plenty for me.



- Oh yeah - keep them big ole' honkin' mirrors - the ones that look like they made from roll cage tubing and win the battles with other puny mirrors.

 

[ekroman]

More galvanizing in the body would be good.



Just like my wife, I wouldn't change a thing, except maybe a cupholder. Guess I'll have to build a little console to hold the 4 a. m. cup of coffee, since she won't get up that early!



For those of you who would change the VE out, you are now doomed to the GM 5. 7 injector pump!



Eddie

 

[JLEONARD]

true to the Ve... all you other guys... . 15RWHP PENALTY.

But... but... . at least I specified the correct number of valves..... :-laf :-laf

Can I appeal for a lesser penalty based on that? :-laf :-laf



I'm gonna have to push the old girl up the hill on my way home tonight I guess. :--)

Jay