Unfortunate

[Max340]

During the past few weeks I have been busy. Some of it was work, some of it was supporting local efforts and individuals who are putting forth huge amounts of energy to help in NYC.



It is sad that on my return to read this set of forums, I find that many people cannot act like gentlemen (or ladies) in their patriotic zeal.



The terrorist attacks are not the result of some bunch of [racial slurs omitted]. It is the result of a bunch of people, estimated in number around 3000 (from what I've read) who happen to be Muslims. I have seen Christians and Jews who also "pervert" the teachings of their religion.



Some of those are here. It makes me almost as angry as Tuesday's attack when I see that. We founded this country, on truths that are self evident. Yet I constantly see those who claim to support those truths using racial slurs, slamming religion other than their own, and generally antagonistic about anyone other than their own kind.



And on top of it, when they are called on their violation of those simple values, and of the guidelines set forth for the forum, they are offended and complain about the rules.



I hold these truths to be self evident:



A gentleman can express himself clearly and concisely without using offensive language.



A set of religions beliefs other than mine can work toward the same end as mine, respect, polite behavior, and tolerance.



A persons skin color and facial hair does not indicate his organizational affiliation or how they think.



The actions of one person do not necessarily indicate the beliefs of the whole population.



Maybe there are more, I don't know.



What I do know is its petty to be worried about rules and forum guidelines right now. We should be, as a national organization, figuring out how we can help the nation. We all have trucks, we all have inside contacts etc. Its time to help the nation.



Any suggestions? Let me know, I can tell you I have been trying to do my part here in the middle of Pa, but we are bigger than that.

 

[Shovelhead]

Well put Max340.

 

[BK]

Cant disagree with you... . with about 99% of your very well written post. .





There's 1% I have a large problem with... .



When the AP has a video of people dancing in the street and it's shown and the AP has other videos that their lifes were threaten over if they were shown - more of Afagahnastanian's (sp?) dancing in the street, a general hate developes for "those" people. Not saying it's right, but the focusing does need to happen. .



I agree that all of this IS NOT a reason to act against like people in the US. Please , Don't get me wrong about this during my post... I agree with you more than you know on that point. . but it's not such a clear issue...



I have a friend that was born in Pakastan and raised in Saudi Araba (pardon spellings)... . I'll stand up for him, I know him for the man he is.



But like most US white - bread and butter - Americans, I can't tell the difference between a person from Pakastan and S. A. , he can. He admittes he still has a problem telling apart an person of Irish decent from English decent, if they both have red hair... I'm getting a bit off track, but made my point..... that to the "uneducated" each other - we all look alike within our general releams of likeness...



"uneducated"= don't know the difference between religions and races of people from the middle east , and dress codes Via their religions and such.



Now back to America, where we have this mixing pot of races and religions with great freedoms.

I'm not out going after anyone that looks like they are from the middle east... or that has a "towel" on their head. But when I see reports (NJ) or 1st hand displays (here on LI) of re-joycing and happiness because of the attacks from these "green card holders" or "Americans" I have a LARGE PROBLEM.

And we're paying for their protection!!! extra police protection for these particular places.



They must be put on a plane and sent home, or they probably will get hurt. I'm not going to do it, but there are enough sicko's out there that will, and I wouldn't stop them. Myself, I'll just report the anti-americans to the FBI and stay locked and loaded.



The time of PC is gone. PC has gotten the US a body count from last Tuesday of 5. 1k+. And more if we go back to Beruit and unloaded M16's - to be PC.



I don't like violence, but I've said it before, we are now in a street fight. Rules need to change if we are to come out on top and win. . not just defend ourselfs.

You want your "just" America, it needs to defended itself and fight a war that it's been loosing, cause of it's high an mighty WAR rules and PC'ism's. You want a higher body count with no end in sight? Than we should keep going the way we were. Cause these @#$@# just proved to the others it can be done on American soil... soo it has just begun, it will get worse if left unchecked and unmitigated.



Also once you learn what countries in the ME have contributed to these terrorists, you'll find that the actual hate of the US is pretty wide spread. So maybe telling them apart in the sand pile won't matter. They are finding now that even BIG Saudi businesses contributed to Bin Laden and his troops! This runs very deep and wide, = not very good.



I'll never ever disrespect someone for their beliefs and or heritage... but once their beliefs threaten my life AND they act on it, I will not die for THEIR beliefs, nor should any other American from this point forward.



Thats the fine edge to the 1% I don't agree with you about.

PC'ism is nice when it doesn't threaten our lifes and country. It's nice to make everyone feel warm and cozy when we can afford to. But which would you rather do, hurt the feelings of 1% of the nation by sending them home or have more Americans die?

I hope you don't know the pain of knowing a rescue worker lost doing his best to help, or a passanger on the plane...



This is not patiotic zeal, but reality... recognizing what I think we need for the survival of ALL Americans.

When asked what's your nationality, I don't answer with the mixed breed list... I always answer AMERICAN!

American=people who support this country and love this country for what it is and stands for, I don't care what sex, age, race, color, beliefs.

I have ZERO problems with AMERICAN people practicing and preaching their religion and "heritage"---- but if your not for America, get out, go to the home you love. Tolerance for the hate of Americans and America within our borders will be our demize. We also need to eraticate the threat to our lifes, since peace can't be controlled and or negotiated as we have done with other nations. These radical have swarn their lifes to killing Americans and the persuit of bringing down America.



You may agree, I don't know, but I didn't get a sense that you recognized this edge. And it's just my MHO.



Bob

 

[jthorpe]

I have to agree with you Max. I find it a bit disturbing.

 

[Max340]

Nps, I don't blame you a bit. I would do the same thing.



BK, I agree, those that think this was a really cool thing and find the need to celebrate, its time to ship them out, if for no other reason than their own safety.



My problem comes in the indiscriminant blank "kill em all!!" attitude. I guess you could say I am encouraging educated and well used discrimination. It is perhaps racist in some way, but I think its time we did background checks on immigrants entering this country.



My main observation is that we seem to be allowing ourselves to become enraged in a random manner that spews vile and vulgar things, rather than putting the energy toward making this a better and safer country to live in.



Should we be "ratting out" the neighbors? No. But we should slow down long enough to know the neighbors. It astounds me that my grandparents knew more about their neighbors than I know about mine. I think it speaks to the generation, AND the basic characteristic of today's American society that allows these terrorists to live among us unseen. Perhaps Tom Hanks in "The 'Burbs" should be a role model.



The point is, we should KNOW the neighbor. I remember a time when I could find a house key at the next door neightbors house if I needed it. Not now. I remember when I knew the name of the people living in each of the adjacent properties. Now fully half of the houses I can see from my front porch contain strangers I wouldn't recognize in the supermarket.



We all laughed when Hillary Clinton wrote a book called, "It takes a Village". I never read the book, but I can tell you that one of the lasting memories I have of childhood was the guy who lived two blocks up. He was about 65, and drove a Plymouth Fury, a yellow one. I was about 10, and I had a real cool bicycle. We lived next to a nicely sloped alleyway. One day, I went flying down that alley, and out into the street... . right in front of this guy in his Fury. And he stopped at the house, I know, I watched from down the street. I screwed up the guts to go back to the house. Dad asked me if I saw the car... yeah I did. Asked me if I wanted to get a good look at the bicycle before it got put in the garage rafters for a couple of weeks. Yup, I can see it up there too... ... Point is, the neighbors gave doggone about the little kid down the block. Maybe it does take a village.



My point in reply to your 1% is that while I left the "edge" out, I think you are very correct. When someone threatens those values we hold self evident, we must defend them. I in no way meant to be taken as saying we need to be politically correct or lenient in defending the country. But we must not stoop to the same level as our attackers. They attacked the "Imperialist capitalist dogbreath americans", lets not attack anyone but the terrorists. And here at least, lets not refer to them as anything but terrorists. I assure you I have other names for them, but not where I would have to explain my words to kids who should remain innocent.

 

[BK]

Max340 I agree with you.



Very good point about our Neighbors...



I call it the "Edge" since it's a very fine, hard , sharp line that needs to be found. It's an Edge that will hurt people. Our leaders have a tough job, and that edge if handled wrong will make us bleed. I don't want that to be US blood.



That edge will make someone bleed, it needs to be the correct blood. I agree.



And if some of the wrong blood is drawn over in the M. E. ..... we will have to be ok with that and not hold it against our government... it will be done in the vain of not letting any more US blood spill. It seems this country was fine with it in the Gulf War, but that War was very short on all accounts. I hope this "war" which is really a street fight, will be tough and drawn out. There will be many reports of the "wrong" people being killed and hurt, and who knows how accurate that will be.

We need to not let that get in the way of our goal.



I'm sorry, I meant for this to be a short reply, I found myself back up on that stupid soap box again... I'll get off of it...



All the Best to mine and our friends out there...

Bob