Union 76 Renewable Diesel Fuel

[avvblanc01]

I’m in southern Ca
Must be up north I reckon

Nope I’m in Los Angeles and there’s stations down here! I typically go to the one in Long Beach.

 

[Rob S]

Just got the propel app. Seems there are some close by
Thanks
Wonder how the cp4 will like it….

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I’m in southern Ca
Must be up north I reckon

https://propelfuels.com/locations

 

[sag2]

Just got the propel app. Seems there are some close by
Thanks
Wonder how the cp4 will like it….

If you look at the Propel info they say it meets the D-975 diesel spec, so it should like it just fine.

 

[Regcabguy]

I stopped in and purchased a half gallon today. The pump only said it was at least 95% renewable. Nothing about it meeting any fuel specification like the Propel does. It looked and smelled just like the Propel, actually no smell to it at all which is a plusView attachment 131393 . It didn't do too well in the freezer though. I would not suggest filling up and driving to Tahoe when it's near zero degrees. I think I will still try a tank or two and see what happens. Not a bad price at $4.59 compared to everyone else around.

I used Propel a number of times. The absence of smell was great. The overhead reading was the same. The station that carried it went down along with availability.

 

[grabinov]

It’s biodiesel. Because it says its biodiesel. At least 20%. Or at least MAY BE biodiesel. No way to tell at the pump.

Someone PLEASE convince me that I can use this in my 2014 truck. My best station converted to it. But NO evidence has been presented here that it can be run in our trucks.

Just want to jump in since I’m seeing some mis-information here. Traditional Bio diesel and B20 blends and VERY different from 76’s R99 or HPR from Propel stations. Bio diesel is not compatible with emissions trucks (2007.5 and newer with DPFs) but R99 and HPR are. R99 and HPR are chemically extremely similar to normal diesel, and can be used without adverse impact on any diesel. In fact, HPR actually has a higher centane rating and lubricity than normal diesel.

Both were formulated to essentially act as replacements for diesel that are made from renewable sources. As such, they atomize and perform like diesel, and actually burn cleaner. You’re welcome to run both R99 and HPR without issue in a HPCR or other Cummins truck, but you do want to be wary of traditional bio diesel in blends higher than 20% especially in cold weather.

 

[Diesel Gunner]

A question that I have about these “green” fuels is are they compatible with conventional and synthetic engine oils? Are any of you who use them doing engine oil analysis? I do recall, in the past, that there have been issues with compatibility. There is a lot of chemistry that goes on in the crankcase involving the fuel and combustion products that get past the rings and mix with the oil. And, all of the oils I know of are formulated based on #2 diesel being the fuel that is used. Or, are there oils that are formulated specifically for these fuels?

 

[GSykes]

Reading my Diesel Supplement for my 2015 3500 it states on pages 254 - 256 (fuel specifications) not to use a blend more than 20% biodiesel. That orange and black sticker on the pump picture states it is more than 20%. To be on the safe side at this time I don't think I'll use it. Am I missing something?

 

[avvblanc01]

Biomassed based diesel and biodiesel are very different things chemically. Think of HPR and diesel as diesel, but just from a different source material. Unfortunately the signage required by the state doesn’t really reflect that since the lawmakers that require those at pump signs don’t understand this stuff. They’re just lumping biofuels together.

Here’s a link to the HPR website so you can read more about it:
https://propelfuels.com/our_fuels?g...P_xM00DZhB2XAswGDjGCXKj_fADBQEG8aAgBtEALw_wcB

I’ll share by Blackstone labs oil analysis next time I get it back as I’m pretty much exclusively using HPR on all three of my Cummins trucks as well as my TDI VW.

 

[Tuesdak]

Oil has changed some since I ran the B99, traditional FAME biodiesel. Normally on #2 ULSD the engine oil would thicken up at 100C and go out of grade to a 50 weight just under 10,000 miles hauling on our 2008 Duramax.

With B99 use after unhooking the cargo trailer in 117+ summer temps, engine idling and A/C on, shifting into "D" from "P" caused the "Low Oil Pressure Stop Engine" alarm to trip for a moment. Fuel wasn't detected in the UOA, but loss of viscosity was. We had a aftermarket HUGE 2 quart oil cooler also added to this 2008 Duramax. GM's answer was to "buffer" the low oil pressure alarm longer before displaying it. (Change oil was part of the published troubleshooting process.) The oil level had risen a lot.

The B99 doesn't evaporate well on the DPF cleaning exhaust stroke injection event, hits the cylinder walls, and winds up in the engine oil. #2 Diesel can evaporate back out of the engine oil and go through the CDR crankcase breather system. B99 will not evaporate back out of the oil. Fuel dilution of the oil was a problem say for Fords on #2 Diesel. The solution was a dedicated exhaust injector that RAM Cummins engines don't use. We would get into town from towing a good grade and the 2008 Duramax would be in regen because it choked itself to death on EGR to keep NOX down. You thought a 6.2 Diesel smoked bad when cough things fell off cough ... the amount of EGR used before DEF was finally allowed was insane. Then the regen times were longer on B99.

None of the whitewash marketing for these fuels cover concerns like engine oil dilution, if they evaporate on the DPF cleaning exhaust stroke as well as #2 ULSD, how much water the fuel can hold... The coverage for the fuel system is nice: but as UOA can't detect Bio types of Diesel thinning out the engine oil, longer regen times, etc. How about coverage for the engine and expensive emissions equipment like a clogged DPF? The Cummins tests are nice, but, as the labels on the pump don't say "WTH is it really?" other than NOT #2 ULSD?

 

[Diesel Gunner]

OK, that is some real data. Thanks, Tuesdak. Like I said "If the ammo manufacturers came out with "Eco Shells" that were 100% "Green" would you try them out in your $70K Purdey shotgun?"

There is real data and then there is marketing. Many times the two do not correlate to one another. Not saying always. But I spent 17 years in the petroleum industry before I retired and it did not take PHD to recognize bovine excrement coming from the majors or the independents.

 

[AEdelheit]

A station near me just started selling this stuff, I did not try it https://www.neste.us/neste-my-renewable-diesel

 

[avvblanc01]

Oil has changed some since I ran the B99, traditional FAME biodiesel. Normally on #2 ULSD the engine oil would thicken up at 100C and go out of grade to a 50 weight just under 10,000 miles hauling on our 2008 Duramax.

With B99 use after unhooking the cargo trailer in 117+ summer temps, engine idling and A/C on, shifting into "D" from "P" caused the "Low Oil Pressure Stop Engine" alarm to trip for a moment. Fuel wasn't detected in the UOA, but loss of viscosity was. We had a aftermarket HUGE 2 quart oil cooler also added to this 2008 Duramax. GM's answer was to "buffer" the low oil pressure alarm longer before displaying it. (Change oil was part of the published troubleshooting process.) The oil level had risen a lot.

The B99 doesn't evaporate well on the DPF cleaning exhaust stroke injection event, hits the cylinder walls, and winds up in the engine oil. #2 Diesel can evaporate back out of the engine oil and go through the CDR crankcase breather system. B99 will not evaporate back out of the oil. Fuel dilution of the oil was a problem say for Fords on #2 Diesel. The solution was a dedicated exhaust injector that RAM Cummins engines don't use. We would get into town from towing a good grade and the 2008 Duramax would be in regen because it choked itself to death on EGR to keep NOX down. You thought a 6.2 Diesel smoked bad when cough things fell off cough ... the amount of EGR used before DEF was finally allowed was insane. Then the regen times were longer on B99.

None of the whitewash marketing for these fuels cover concerns like engine oil dilution, if they evaporate on the DPF cleaning exhaust stroke as well as #2 ULSD, how much water the fuel can hold... The coverage for the fuel system is nice: but as UOA can't detect Bio types of Diesel thinning out the engine oil, longer regen times, etc. How about coverage for the engine and expensive emissions equipment like a clogged DPF? The Cummins tests are nice, but, as the labels on the pump don't say "WTH is it really?" other than NOT #2 ULSD?

Your feedback on B99 is correct. Biodiesel can’t be run over 20% on any Cummins newer than 2007.5 and equipped with a DPF. These alternative fuels are NOT biodiesel however, and this thread is not about biodiesel. This thread is about HPR, R99 etc. I don’t know what else to write to answer people’s questions other than linking to Cummins themselves saying HPR and R99 are safe to use, but biodiesel is not! haha.

 

[sag2]

Filled up on the way home from the coast today. Only took 18 gallons ($93!!!!) but we will see if it performs similar to the Propel. FYI the Neste is same as the Propel from everything I found.

 

[grabinov]

Your feedback on B99 is correct. Biodiesel can’t be run over 20% on any Cummins newer than 2007.5 and equipped with a DPF. These alternative fuels are NOT biodiesel however, and this thread is not about biodiesel. This thread is about HPR, R99 etc. I don’t know what else to write to answer people’s questions other than linking to Cummins themselves saying HPR and R99 are safe to use, but biodiesel is not! haha.

Ok. It sounds like avvblanc01 kmows what he is talking about. So:

If the 76 Fuel is biomass based HPR fuel. Then it can be run in our trucks. I’ll take your word for that. So the orange/black sticker note which says “greater than 20% biomass based fuel” is no issue - we can run that.

BUT: The same note says “OR biodiesel”. Parsed out, the sentence could read “or greater than 20% biodiesel”, which we CANNOT run.

The word OR means that the user cannot tell if it’s greater than 20% biomass or 20% biodisel. So we can’t run it…

That must be true. If it’s not, why is the word biodiesel even used on that sticker?

 

[bcbender]

That must be true. If it’s not, why is the word biodiesel even used on that sticker?

Its CYA...same as the internet, everything on there is true? anyway, as has been stated most regulators don't know there hat from a hole in the ground. I don't know anything about this as I left CA 20y ago and we dont have it on the East Coast, but all I can say is if you are worried about it, don't use it.

 

[sag2]

I have to believe that 76 must know that most diesel vehicles on the road today should not run more than B20 or damage could result. I can't imagine they would be so irresponsible as to sell diesel fuel that anyone could blindly put in their tank knowing it could cause damage to millions of vehicles. That being said, it would be nice if they would provide a little more information for us to use.

 

[avvblanc01]

I have to believe that 76 must know that most diesel vehicles on the road today should not run more than B20 or damage could result. I can't imagine they would be so irresponsible as to sell diesel fuel that anyone could blindly put in their tank knowing it could cause damage to millions of vehicles. That being said, it would be nice if they would provide a little more information for us to use.

Yeah 76 has done an absolutely horrible job with education and information at the pump! That sticker is basically just Ca fuel pump info regulations not being up to date with the latest fuels. Just be smart and know what you’re putting in!

 

[Tuesdak]

I have to believe that 76 must know that most diesel vehicles on the road today should not run more than B20 or damage could result. I can't imagine they would be so irresponsible as to sell diesel fuel that anyone could blindly put in their tank knowing it could cause damage to millions of vehicles. That being said, it would be nice if they would provide a little more information for us to use.

This is a "Buyer Beware" where this belief isn't even fiction. Fiction has to be plausible: The Truth does not!

After 2007 we had a truck stop selling "not ULDS" for years with a sticker saying not for use in 2007 or newer diesels. Of course you could see 2007+ Pickups fueling up at it.

You can buy B99 traditional FAME biodiesel at several locations here. Been that way for over a decade.

I suggest the "vague" labeling on the pump allows them wiggle room to pump "whatever" Bio type of Diesel they can get.

 

[Ozymandias]

It's about time that the US adapts the EN 15940 standard to label the pumps correctly.

What a mess now.... stickers of all kinds and totally misleading.