Upper timing case dowel pin

[DanoT]

Hi all,

I'm new to this site and have just learned about the killer dowel pin. I have owned my 1991 CTD since new and have 190,000km or about 120,000miles.



My local Dodge dealer just quoted me 20 hours labour at $100 per hour to do the dowel pin fix and they said the Loctite fix is just temporary and would be about 4. 5 hours labour. The service dept. also said that over the years they have only seen about 3 trucks with the pin falling out so they do not usually do a preventative repair.



My question is that with my truck going as long as it has without the pin falling out should I have anything to worry about? I have put some miles on the truck pulling a 8400lb. 5th wheel trailer and soon plan on getting a 2000lb. truck camper.



Any input from you guys is appreciated.

 

[JLEONARD]

It should be fixed. 20 hours labor is simply re duckin' ficulous.

I think most of us here could do the job in 3 or 4 labor hours. I know I helped my nephew do his and it maybe 3 hours.



Loctite is not a fix in my opinion. Once you are in there simply stake the pin in place with a hammer and prick punch.

 

[DanoT]

I plan on going back to my Dodge dealer to further discuss the 20 hour labour estimate for the dowel pin repair, so any other first hand accounts of how long the repair takes would be great.

 

[Bluebird]

Seek TDR members!

Hey Dano T, state where you live brother! I'll bet you a TDR member may be close or passing through who can help you out. (Dodge wheelers and dealers???, Aye Chihuahua) Wow, you had your rig since new, coooool The TDR is great, oh, a few of these folks have a screw, nut or bolt loose:-laf, however it's the best gearhead $35-bucks I ever spent



I learn more everyday, Patrick

 

[DanoT]

Bluebird, I'm from Shawnigan Lake, British Columbia on Vancouver Island, north of Victoria. So chances are not all that great that there are TDR folks near by.

BTW the coolest thing about having a Dodge CTD when it was new was that there weren't many around and people would stop me in parking lots and ask to see the engine and talk trucks etc. Nowadays 1st gen CTDs are not that common and people stop me (especially guys that were kids in the 90s) and tell me how much they like these old CTD. So things have sort of started to come full circle.

 

[WyattEarp]

I agree, they are FOS on the labor and their idea that it don't need fixed, I have a fellow TDR member whom i have become good friends with just simply by this site and the purchase of a rolling chassis whom is going to help me tab mine and also fix the crank case bolts so they don't come loose also and this can be done without even removing the radiator... I agree seek TDR and they shall find you, i know your sort of remote but there is always that chance a TDR member is around or may even enjoy a trip up to your parts to help, don't give up hope thats for sure.
Good luck with this and 20hrs for labor, they are full of #$%

 

[RedRamAndy]

Hello Dano T,

Do not let anyone talk you out of doing it. The results are tragic if that pin falls out. I am not the original owner of my 1989, but saved it from being a parts-truck in 2006. I have put off the Killer Dowel Pin repair for 4 years and now I'm finally going to fix it and tighten the timing cover bolts at the same time with the help of the archives in this group. You might seriously consider doing this yourself. 20 hours labor???, that bid is really going to help someone pay for their boat. That's wayyyyyy too long from what I've read. I'm planning on spending about 4 to 5 hours having never done this before. I have bought the parts in preparation for next weekends' job. I got a new front seal and timing cover gasket from Cummins shipped to me for 63 bucks including shipping and the serpentine belt and both radiator hoses for 82 from another parts house. I plan on doing the peen-in solution for the pin. (seat the pin and then peen the bore at 3 clock locations around the hole to prevent it from walking out again)

Consider doing it yourself and not making others rich. There is definitely a sense of pride in owning a vintage Cummins. I get conversation from all types of deisel drivers at the pumps when I fuel it. I know your sense of pride in your truck and I urge you to think about twisting your own wrenches.

Use the (TDR) Force Luke!

 

[hbowers]

I started fixing the kdp problem several years ago using the drill jig method in both 1st gen and 2nd gen trucks. then I got a 91 in my shop w/a broken camshaft. at first I thought the pin had fallen out,so I removed the front cover and the pin was seated ,haden't even moved,so I discovered the bolt just above the oil pump was missing. I fished it out of the pan w/a magnet.

it went thru the gears and broke the camshaft. so needless to say from then on I quit using the jig method. I took Joe Donnelly's advise and remove the cover on all of them now. I use a tab that I have made,tab the pin and remove the bolts inside one at a time,clean and loc-tite them. takes me 3 hours w/new seal.

 

[Greenleaf]

I don't how long JUST that job takes, as the responsible person would perform several other jobs involed in doing that one job. There is a long list of issues that you could resolve when you start taking parts off your truck/engine. I spend most of a saturday perfroming the preventative maint. related to the dowel pin.



Why take the front of the engine apart and ignore everything else that is worn, plugged, dirty etc. etc?

 

[WyattEarp]

scott i see you made it safely back, hope you enjoyed the sights around down here on the parkway and so forth.
I myself am going to another members house where we are going to tackle the KDP, the gear housing bolts etc, etc as well as gaskets and turbo rebuild, hopefully all will go well but i may have to take my sleeping bag just in case, one never knows what will happen, i know the oil leak i have from the Turbo seems to be post turbo but the funny thing is the propeller is tight as can be, no shaft play at all, so whom knows.

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I have to second what Harold (aka hbowers) said. He's the one that taught more how and provided the drill jigs. BTW I saw the pieces of that truck - not a pretty sight.



Bob

 

[JLEONARD]

Why take the front of the engine apart and ignore everything else that is worn, plugged, dirty etc. etc?

Because if I did that I would end up replacing bearings, rings, etc. Where does the insanity stop?

Run the motor.

 

[Greenleaf]

No, me hearties, not the engine block. :-laf

The cooling system flush... ... ... .

Coolant hoses

Power wash the rad. and IC

Water Pump perhaps?

Belt and tensioner

Fan support bearing.

Maybe a thermostat



All that maint. right there in front of the engine, where you'd be working.



Don't let Jay fool you. He fixes everything on his boat(s) even goes overboard a bit with it. Nothing is left to chance.



Jay, get back to work 'for I rip 'en burn yer Jolly Roger... ..... You bilge drinkn' scurvy infested swab. Strike ye colors! I'll skewer yer gizzard and send ye down to Davey Jones locker!



Blimy!

 

[JLEONARD]

Aye, Aye, Captain Blye!!:-laf:-laf

 

[Jgolden]

I don't how long JUST that job takes, as the responsible person would perform several other jobs involed in doing that one job. There is a long list of issues that you could resolve when you start taking parts off your truck/engine. I spend most of a saturday perfroming the preventative maint. related to the dowel pin.



Why take the front of the engine apart and ignore everything else that is worn, plugged, dirty etc. etc?

Since I have to get the front off my motorhome to get out my Inj. pump I was searching KDP and found this post. Great advice. No more cringing every time I read a KDP post, or wonder about 20 year old Rad hoses, and on and on... or be forced to flush the radiator or... . that list is pretty complete... any other suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[EWalshak]

Dont let those jokers at the dodge dealer rob you for 20hrs labor. If they talk you out of doing it they stand to make out like bandits if you need them to fix or replace your motor if and when it does fall out. There is no guarantee it will or wont come out but you never know. If you dont fix it you will always wonder everytime you turn the key or hit a bump. If you fix it you will know for sure that it wont. Its not that difficult to do. Just take your time and if you have to ask a lot of questions on this forum thats what we are here for. Before I did mine I had someone lie to me about what it would take to do it. He said all this stuff about how he would have to remove the whole front end of the truck. HORSE POOOEY. It can be done without even removing the rad hoses.