Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) US Gear OD or NV5600 - Quandary

[Ol'TrailDog]

I'm soliciting experience and opinions - not that anyone around here would have one. :-laf



I'm condering two options: Installing a U. S. Gear overdrive behind the 5spd. NV4500 or doing a 6spd. conversion.



IMHO, the pros for doing the OD are:

* 1/2 the price, at least.

* 10 gears, keep my 4:10s and have 20% OD which should get me somewhere back toward 65mph at 2K versus the 58mph at 2K (with my other rigs I drove 65 95% of the time - okay everybody say GRANDPA ).

* If I ever decided to change rigs selling the OD would be easy. I'd realize more bucks than any additional value for selling the truck with the sixer.

* Once upon a time I had a Land Rover with a Warn overdrive. I also put a Warn OD and a V6 in a Willys wagon. Albeit, they were gear shift lever planetary gear ODs that went on the back of the transfer case - piece of cake. They were absolutely fantastic.

* I've driven splitter rear end stock trucks plenty enough to know what I'm getting myself into with the electric shifting OD.



IMHO, the pros for doing the 6 speed are:

* I like the 6spd. I've had two and like the ratios. But they were driving 3:54s. The 5 spd. does much much better driving the 4:10s in reverse and 2nd than the 5 spd. and 3:54s I had in the 98 CTD.

* bullet proof transmission.

* IF, which is extremely doubtful, I ever decided to more than occasionally tow the sixer would be best.

* I could put 3:73s or 3:54s in the pumpkins to get back to 65 at 2K - approx another $1000 minimum on a good deal.

* Don't have to have the drive shafts shortened/lengthened.



Oh, BOTH is not an option. As Mom use to say "Money doesn't grow on trees. " I am definately leaning toward the OD. I sure everyone that has done the sixer conversion is more than happy. I also know some do not like the electric "clunk" shift of the US Gear OD, Gear Vendor is out because of lack of 4x4 capabilities.



What say ye? TIA OTD

 

[bpenrod]

According to my gear speed calculator you should be at 77 mph spinning 2000 rpm with the 5 speed and 4. 10's. That is using the 22% from my GV unit. Personally I like the OD option for it's greater flexibilty. I had a new driveshaft made and kept the original tail shaft so I can switch back quickly. I went with the GV due to the short bed and not wanting to lengthen the front drive shaft and play with the transfer case shifting linkage. The down side is no OD in 4x4.

 

[CTalbert]

I had a 1994 automatic with a 4. 10 rear end. I added the Gear Venders OverDrive after I added a Banks Stinger kit. If I had added the GV first I probably would not have added the Stinger. (Okay, I would added the Stinger later. Gotta have more power. ) I really liked the GearVenders kit. After adding it the truck seemed right. Before the GV unit i felt the truck was always missing something.

If I remember right I was doing 1700 rpm at 70-75mph. That would hold the engine in the sweet spot, and loaf along all day. My top speed was 86mph without the unit, and around 106 mph with it. From your post I don't think the speed is the issue.

I currently have the 2001 auto with a 3. 54, and it loafs along at

2000 rpm at 80 mph. I like the truck and but I miss spliting overdrive on this one. I may eventually change out the rear to 4. 10 and added a GV again.

 

[DBrickel]

I've considered a gv also but have heard that exhaust brakes don't get along well with the gv units on automatics

 

[BTighe]

ive also heard that if you run an gv od that your not supposed to cruise with it. that would pretty much defeat any reason i would get one. the same guy told me you cant have it in od and use the e brake.

 

[EBottema]

The GV overdrive sounds like a nice option. I think the nv4500 is a better built transmission minus the nut issue over the nv5600. Hopefully someone else will chime in.



OTD- I remember seeing you with your 04 on the 3rd gen boards with me in a heated arguments on why 12v's are overall superior to the 3rd gen setup. So why did you come back to a 12v? I guess i can say I was right?

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

I see there are a number of happy GV owners. However, the GV is not an option because I must have 4X4. The USGear works with an exhaust brake also.



Eric, the reason I sold my 04 and went back to a 97 12v was because I decided I had had enough of being on the payment tread mill. I never had a car loan until I bought my 98 CTD, i. e. I always had used fixer uppers. I realized I could be quite content with a paid off truck. I went back to the 12v instead of a 24v because for a couple reasons:

* The Cummins reliability legend was built on the 12v.

* I liked the power band on my 98 12v when attacking Teton and Togwotee Passes.

* I liked the clattering 12v - most times

* I really liked the mechanical 12v versus the electronically controlled 24v. Based solely on emotional principle and mechanical aptitude.

* I've always tinkered on my trucks and I figured the 12v would be just the ticket. Beside the exhaust brake, changing oil and filters, doing valves on the 98 12v, installing gauges, and swapping tires I didn't have to lay a wrench to any of the CTDs. Now with the 97 I've tabbed the KDP, fixed and replaced the fuel sending unit, replaced the starter, and installed the flatbed in two months. And put 4. 5K+ on it - Varooom



Besides, we can still argue about how much better the NV5600 was than the NV4500 ever was.



Geeze, if only I'd bought a QC 3500 DRW in 98 -- sigh, aint hindsight wonderful. :-laf

 

[12V Ford]

Well, I don't have a dodge , but I do have the US gear OD. The OD is behind the ZF-6, SBDD, and 96 12v. I have 3. 55 gears and in Double OD, I cruise along at 1750 rpm at 75 mph . It works great for towing also. I'll start out in 1st, hit 2nd, hit 3rd, 3rd over, 4th, 4th over, 5th and then 5th over and tow there if the load is heavy, otherwise I'll tow in 6th. It's like driving a semi because you can keep a narrow rpm range so the engine doesn't have to fight to get the rpms back up. I tried to tow in 6th over once, but it doesn't take long for things to heat up fast. I think this thing kicks butt, now if only I could make it air shifted .

By the way, I would prefer the NV 5600 over the 4500 because my brother had an 01 dodge 5 sp. when he was hot shotting for the oil fields pulling heavy loads, and he went through 4 transmissions. Besides, the 5600 is rated for more torque, has a larger clutch, and doesn't need any upgrading. Swap gears and use the NV 5600 IMOH.

 

[Boomer II]

I used to ponder the same setup, after losing 5th for the 4th time I opted for the NV5600. I am very happy with the way it tows, Dodge should be sued for ever putting a NV4500 behind a Cummins. The biggest problem I see with the five speed/OD setup is you still have that **** fifth gear to worry about. I'm planning on putting the 5 speed behind my 6 cyl. Jeep engine, maybe it can stay together there.

 

[dtygart]

1st of all--I have no experience with either, but I do remember reading a thread here that the GV's didn't stand up to major bombing. I think those of you who are happy with it might dispute that though, just a thought to check out.

david

 

[autoworld]

Gear Vendors is the best thing out there, have ran one and pulled with it over 400,000 miles, tried a USG once in dads truck, he hated it, shifts hard etc, never ordered another. Not cruise with it? WHAT! thats what its for!!! Not saying this cuz we are dealer, i did testing for them with my alcohol dragster, they had me TRY to blow them up, each time i did, they built a stronger one, finally one could stand up.

As far as the NV4500, that has also been in our truck 400,000 miles BUT we use the Centerforce clutch/throwout bearing and 13" flywheel. The earlier ones had a problem with the 5th gear nut, that can be corrected and it is solved now. we have also seen problems created by driveline vibration however slight, no one should go thru transmissions over and over again, there is something causing it. We have several of them out there in conversions and we are now putting in NV5600's too - but they are way more $$ so we just do what a person (can't say "guy" cuz we have ladies with them out there too) wants for budget and what their needs are - GV does 4X4 units too, the only thing is you DONT drive in 4wd with the unit on, but why would you need to, shouldn't be going fast enough to need it if conditions require 4wd! well thats my take on it, but i'm just a girl

dawna

 

[BTighe]

sounds like you should go with the od unit. theres a guy on the nwbombers site that tows a 40ft trailer an has been having a few issues with his nv5600. plus itll keep your sifting down going through traffic empty.

 

[Boomer II]

sounds like you should go with the od unit. theres a guy on the nwbombers site that tows a 40ft trailer an has been having a few issues with his nv5600. plus itll keep your sifting down going through traffic empty.

I wouldn't judge the 5600 on one guy having trouble. That transmission is huge compared to the 4500 and the gearing is perfect for a Cummins, no gap between third and fourth. As far as the 4500 5th gear being fixed???? Not that I've heard, there are several aftermarket companies that offer fixes, if you're willing to gamble that they'll hold up.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Thanks for the good observations.



Never even considered a Gear Vendor because the US Gear works in 4x4. BUT... dawna's op that you shouldn't need it in 4x4 is rather... . astute. Especially with 4:10s and a Hi Lo transfer case. Geeeze, from a girl tooo However, I did use the Warn OD in both the LandRover and Willys while crawling aboust.



Us guys should be plumb ashamed of our lack of perspecuity. Hummmpphh... guess I'll go hunting. :-laf

 

[autoworld]

there is a different nut now for the nv4500 that doesn't come off, thats the fix. the 5600 IS huge compared to the 4500, its about 8" longer, poses driveline issues... lol but we just shorten those puppys. i drove marks 93sub/04 cummins/5600 before he left here last week and it was OK, hard to get used to the close shift, i'm so used to ours i guess, we are doing the same to the present project, guess i'll try it out then.

dont get to see much of the crawling except on tv, we are always on the road to

(drag) race tracks... . but it looks FUN...

dawna

 

[Boomer II]

Having spit off three of those nuts I can guarantee you it is not a fix. There are some aftermarket companies that make fully splined shafts and such that are supposed to solve the problem, but Dodge/NV don't have a fix to my knowledge. I don't know of any driveline issues other than drive shaft mods, mine works like a dream. It does shift different, but after you get used to it you'll never go back, especially towing.

 

[john krmpotic]

I have a Gear Vendors and an NVG 5600 in my First Gen 4x4. I use this truck strictly for trailering. I am quite pleased with this combination, my only concern is, How long will the Gear Vendors stand-up as it is quite small and light in comparison with the 5600 and 205 transfer case? Any thoughts as to how many miles the GV will last? John

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

I see there is another post about the GVs not being compatible with an exhaust brake. There is no way I'd remember to turn it off, or want to bother with turning it off, before using the ebrake. Therefore, a GV is completely out. After having a couple rigs with ebrakes I wouldn't be without one. Thus, it will be a US Gear or a NV5600.

 

[WDixon27]

I see there is another post about the GVs not being compatible with an exhaust brake. There is no way I'd remember to turn it off, or want to bother with turning it off, before using the ebrake. Therefore, a GV is completely out. After having a couple rigs with ebrakes I wouldn't be without one. Thus, it will be a US Gear or a NV5600.

how about a double poll relay, one turns on and the other turns off with one switch, or use the other leg to interrupt the feed keeping you from running both at the same time

 

[NIsaacs]

How about trading back up to an 01' or O2' with the 6-spd and 3. 55's. It is quick, simple, factory and about the same $$ maybe





"NICK"