Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Use of Tractor Transmission/Hydraulic Oil in our Trucks

[MAleshire]

Does anyone have information or experience about the use of tractor transmission/hydraulic oil in our transmissions. I found very little in searching the subject. What I have heard is that the use of this fluid works well and helps keep transmission fluid temps down. Also, that it is designed to work well in hard high temperature situations that it gets exposed to in agriculture. Any useful info or experience would be appreciated.



Skip

 

[SRadke]

In an automatic transmission? I wouldn't do that.

 

[MAleshire]

Why? Based on what? I'm not necessarily advocating for it, I'm looking for information based on experience and/or knowledge.

Skip

 

[fox]

I ran hygraulic fluid in my trans for a year.



It had incosistent shift firmness and rpm/speed.

When it was checked or drained it LOOKED horrible, as if it was broken down.



did it hurt it? No, but I am much happier with trans fluid.

 

[SRehberg]

I ran John Deere Hy-Gard in my 47RE until I sold it. There are others who are successfully using it and from the tests that have been conducted on the tractor transmissions it far surpasses other fluid IMHO. It does firm the shifts slightly and with it's almost clear color it is harder to read on the dipstick. Would I use it again? Without hesitation but everyone has to be comfortable with that decision.

 

[MAleshire]

Thanks much for that information. The two brand names I've heard feedback on are John Deere Hygard and Centrex. I couldn't find anything on the internet about Centrex, but John Deere's description of Hygard really looks promising. I know someone that has been running Hygard for over 150k miles in the same transmission and is happy with it. The feeback from that TDR member is that shifts are better and more consistent, and that the clear color makes it harder to read the dipstick.



Thanks again, Skip



Skip

 

[CCahill]

I'm not an engineer, but don't the developers of these products make them for a specific role in life ?? I haven't looked at JD's site yet, but do they call it trans fluid, or imply you can use in in your AT... . ???

Being on my 3rd trans now, I use fluid for what fluid was intended... . most of the time... and always in my transmission. .

 

[SRehberg]

I was very happy with the shift quality using Hy-Gard as I mentioned previously. I think the transmission design engineer's have to juggle longevity with shift quality (read smoothness) as most driver's probably do not appreciate firmer shifts. I had no inconsistency in shifting and when I changed the fluid I wondered why I did, as it came out a light amber color. MUCH less debris in the pan as well. It was easy to flush the old ATF and install the Hy Gard.

 

[MAleshire]

Out of curiosity, how often did you did you change the fluid? And, when you changed it did you just change the fluid in the pan, or did you also drain the TC. I'm assuming you don't have a TC plug, which makes draining the TC a real PITA. For the initial flush what process did you use for draining/flushing the TC? As long as I'm overloading you with questions, how many miles did you have on the transmission when you switched to Hygard? I'm very interested with the longevity between changes when compared to conventional ATF

Skip



Skip

 

[SRehberg]

No problem with the questions. The '96 I had at that time had slightly over 60K on the odometer. When I installed the Hy Gard I disconnected the return line at the trans adding a clear hose to the end so you can see the fluid color. That end I put into a 5 gal. bucket. I removed the dipstick, installed the funnel and had the Hy Gard ready to go. I started the truck in neutral, not Park, then watched the clear line as I started adding the Hy Gard. Once the red ATF started to get sporadic and more clear Hy Gard was coming through, I went just a bit more. I reconnected the return line to the trans and topped it off. From what I saw I think you can easily exceed the typical change interval but again, it's a individual comfort level. The truck was pulling a 27 ft. 5th wheel at the time and the oil remained clear.



The first time I changed the oil at the 15,000 mi. mark, eager to see the pan debris. I was pleasantly surprised as there was hardly anything, a bit of "dust" but nothing like usual (brass etc). I changed the TC out to a BD Dual clutch converter afterwards which had a drain plug but the first change was a typical pan drop. Am I sold? Yes! I have a 5 spd now and if I thought I could get by with it, Hy Gard would be in it! Now I'm contemplating it for the transfer case.

 

[fest3er]

Compared with Amsoil's Universal ATF, Hy-Gard is a little thicker at 100C and 40C and has a lower viscosity index. The birds-eye general properties are likely similar: heat removal, friction modifiers, wet clutches/brakes, anti-wear, anti-foam; hose/seal conditioner, if any, prolly won't affect the auto trans. Hy-Gard would probably handle the heat of heavy towing better than ATF. To be more certain as to how these oils compare, one should read the relevant specs: Chrylser's ATF+4 and John Deere's J20C.

They aren't definitely interchangeable. Amsoil's Universal ATF, Tractor H/T Oil, Torque Drive (TranSynd equivalent) and Hy-Gard all share a spec or two; it's probably safe to say they're all cousins. Read the specs. If you are satisfied that Hy-Gard is 'close enough', then use it. And, as always, remember Robert's Repeated Recitation: "I am my own warranty station. "

 

[MAleshire]

Neal--thanks for the feedback. I've had difficulty in finding a technical property listing for Hygard, or Chrysler ATF+4. I've found them for Amsoil Universal ATF, which can be substituted for ATF+4. Also found them for Amsoil Tractor Transmission/Hydraulic Oil which can be substituted for John Deere Hygard(J20C). The properties of the two Amsoil fluids are close enough that they should be interchangeable. Given that, it would seem that Hygard should very closely approximate ATF+4.



You are right, I am my own warranty station. That's why I want to gather information before making a decision.



Thanks, Skip









































=

 

[KOG]

I use transmission/hydraulic fluid. In the tractors. Never occurred to me to use it in the trucks. I do have a case of Type F on hand to use at the nest change to firm up the shifts (old trick), but maybe the tractor fluid is better. If I thought it would tighten up the torque converter I'd use it in a heartbeat.

 

[fox]

I think type F will give it converter shudder. don't use it!

 

[Wingate]

hhhmmm... makes me wonder about the use of Caterpillar TDTO-30... Cat also has a synthetic TDTO.....

Somebody try it in a 48RE and report back...

 

[KOG]

I'm not worried about converter shutter with type F in the 91. It's not lockup. But it's quite loose.

 

[HCannon]

The one place that I have been using it is in the power steering. It works fine there. Been using it for a while, dont have to have so many different kinds of oil around.

 

[DGamelin]

I see your trans was built by DDT. What did they have to say? I just put 9 gal's of that JD oil in a tractor, it doesn't feel nothing like trans fluid. It is munch slicker then trans fluid.



_________________________

93 250 2wd xc 354 auto 267k

04. 5 3500 4wd qc dully 373 6speed 92k

 

[MAleshire]

I did contact DTT via email. Bill Kondolay was out of town. His wife responded that they had no experience with the use of Hygard. I would really like to have the opportunity to talk with Mr. Kondolay about it. He is really good about providing honest feedback, but don't know if he would want to get into the middle of this one.



I contacted Amsoil tech services about substituting their synthetic tractor transmission/hydraulic fluid for their Universal ATF. Their response was that the friction modifiers were different and the viscosity of the tractor fluid is too high to use for ATF. I'm going to contact John Deere on Monday to ask for their feedback on the same issue. I think both companies may be reluctant to give any feedback that may create a liability issue.



I found a couple threads on the internet that are good reading on this subject The Turbo Forums.com or, use a search engine and type in Tractor Fluid instead of ATF.



What I've found so far is that people that have used Hygard in our 12v 2nd gen auto transmissions are happy with it. Hygard's use started with its use in the transmissions of dragsters. Later, it was adopted for use in street cars and trucks. It was found to lubricate better, keep temps down better, and last longer than regular ATF. There were two issues listed. Everyone stated that the clear color of Hygard makes it more difficult to read the dipstick. The second, listed by very few, had to do with transmission noise until the fluid warmed up a bit. Hygard has come out with a low viscosity version for colder climates. Regular Hygard has been used in climates that have winter temps typically down to 10*F. That definitely is not midwest cold, but just fine for Oregon which is where I live.



Skip

 

[SRehberg]

HCannon, I tried the Hygard in the power steering a few years back and for me it was a huge mistake. It works fine in the trans but the extra viscosity was to much for the power steering. It wouldn't work for squat, almost as if there was no power steering so I'm surprised it works well for you. It took MANY turkey baster sucks to get that stuff out and flushing! :-laf