Used P-Pump

[roadhawg]

I found a used p7100 today for a reasonable price.



Can anyone tell me how involved and or expensive it is to do a conversion from the VE ?

Would you have to change the plate that the pump mounts to?

Besides timeing gear, injector lines, and injectors



Just trying to figure out the$

 

[cerberusiam]

You have to replace the housing the pump mounts to along with injectors, lines, and possibly lift pump. I think you lose the vacuum pump also as the 2nd gens use a hydro boost for the brakes. If you have the first gen head then a notch needs to be ground in it for the p-pump to fit. You will probably need a relay for the fuel solenoid also as it is different.



Other than that, a piece of cake.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I've always been under the impression that it is alot of work. Along with the items noted above, you'll need a new gear case cover machined for the crank position sensor, electics and more.

I "THINK" the last time I inquired about this conversion the cost for a shop to do the work (including labour) was near $5000 USD.



You'd literally be better off finding a used 2nd gen engine and doing a refresh on it then installing that.....

'Course you know that you'd need a very special and, hard to come by "permit" to hang in the 1st Gen forum after that though... . and you'd have any automatic 50 RWHP penalty for the blasphemy and transgression offenses.....



Pastor Bob... . I am one with the pump.....

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I don't consider myself a part of any CTD group. I own a 2nd Gen 12-valve... . but I like darn near anything that runs on #2... .



Hydro-boost brakes started in '96 on the 2nd Gens... . so you could keep your vacuum brake booster.



I have heard that because of the differences in the engine compartment between the 1st/2nd Gen trucks... . that there will only be a very small amount of room between the P-Pump and the brake master cylinder.



The crank position sensor isn't necessary to make a 12-valve run... it just gives RPM feedback for the charging system and automatic transmission shift points on the '96+ trucks.



Don't even worry about the shutdown solenoid. You first Gen guys wouldn't be opposed to using a shutdown cable... . in my opinion, its the only way to fly... . can't get much more simple or reliable than that.



Matt

 

[Tim1]

p-pump

This is a very good question! I have a 96 complete core engine and have compared it to the 92 and it look doable. The gurus that know these 12 valves say , inner timing case, cam shaft and gear, p-pump, lines and probably different injectors or adapters. I think a check with Piers Harry will confirm most of this. Timing? Shut down, a cable would be just fine. If you have a good motor, why get a second gen, the pump makes the power! I think the head is a little better flowing than the frist gen, but this is livable. I'll follow this closely as I would like to do the same think. The timing and injectors are tricky, I think. Maybe not. Oh yeah, you have to pull the motor to get the cam out on our trucks. Tim

 

[Grey Wolf]

My boys and I replaced the engine in my sons '90 with a '96 engine and they only area we thought we would have trouble with was the injection pump to the master cylinder area. It turned out to be no problem, we had about a half inch of clearance We used a throttle cable from a Freightliner and the start stop solenoid from the '96 and most of the other "hang ons" from the '90. The only other item that wasn't from the '90 was the core support from a '93 so we could utilize the intercooler and A/C condenser. It was actually a pretty easy swap, so there doesn't seem to be much to be concerned about as far as putting the "P" pump on the early ones... ... ... if you can get over the costs that is!



By the way the cam can be pulled without pulling the engine... ... ... ... been there and done that!

 

[Tim1]

throttle cable

Thanks Grey Wolf for the input, was the throttle cable from a FL70 or one of the units that use the cummins? This would be very helpful! Cam can be removed with engine in, good to know, will be easier. Thanks again! Tim

 

[Grey Wolf]

Hey Tim1 you hit the nail on the head! It just so happened that we were about at the end of the install when my youngest son (works at Cummins) was working on this FL70 and saw the throttle set up. We needed the piece for the throttle lever and the cable so he gave the info to his brother, who happened to be working for Freightliner at the time, so he was able to get the part numbers and parts. How convenient could that be



By the way after you have removed the radiator, shroud, swung the condenser out of the way, etc. , to remove the cam all you need to do is to cut the center bar on the core support. I cut the bar and kept it, when we were done installing the cam and had put the radiator back in, I got some flat bar bolted the center bar to it then bolted the whole unit back to the core support. Now if we ever feel like doing some cam work, all we have to do is unbolt the support and start playing... ... ... .

 

[cguthrie]

Very clean looking truck Grey Wolf. I wish mine looked that good, Did you buy it brand new? Has your son dyno'd his truck yet? I'd be interested to see what he is at. I've been talking to a good friend of mine about that conversion.



Chris

 

[Grey Wolf]

cguthrie,



Thanks I try to keep it up, it's been very good to me so I try to return the favor I didn't buy it new it was a year old and I got it from a Fireman and you know how they are with their equipment.



As far as the dyno issue we just happen to have made an appointment for Monday, so I'll let you know. We didn't get to wild with as he needs it for work, etc and we didn't want to tax the drive train if you know what I mean!



By the way I see your in the Air Force, I just wanted to say thanks for what you do... ... ... .

 

[Tim1]

FL 70 throttle cable parts

Hey Grey Wolf, would it be asking to much for your boy to give us the part numbers for the throttle if he still has them? Thanks in advance. Tim

 

[Grey Wolf]

Tim,



I called my son and he still has the parts information, so I'll post it tomorrow after we get back from running his truck on the Dyno.



Ken

 

[Tim1]

part numbers

Thanks bud, I for one appreciate it. Tim

 

[Grey Wolf]

Tim,



Here’s the numbers for the “Accelerator Control-Foot” from Freightliner. Below is the information off the parts list illustration. The information was obtained from my youngest son off the truck that came into his shop. The oldest son took this to work and had his Freightliner parts guy look up the parts. One thing you need to know is this information was from Oct of 2002, so the numbers may have been superseded by now!



Product: FTL

Serial Number: 792740

Model: N106042S T

Production Date: 9/5/1996

BOM: 106-C01344

BOM Description: Accelerator Control-Foot

Art ID: M106_300017



Below are the actual parts we ordered:



 01-24794-000 Cable (BS) 1 Ordered.

 01-22652-000 Throttle Cable Bracket 1 Ordered. (This attaches to the pump to hold the cable end)

 680-301-15-40 Throttle Spring Bracket 1 Ordered. (This attaches to the block and is were one end of the return spring attaches)

 680-301-00-38 Accelerator Return Spring 2 Ordered. (This attaches to pump lever and the above bracket, however we only used one spring two springs were too much!)

 680-301-02-42 Throttle Cable Extension 1 Ordered. (This part attaches to the pump lever and has a ball nut that the end of the cable attaches to. )

 680-990-01-15 Hex Screw 1 Ordered (This is the ball nut)



The throttle cable attached to the existing accelerator pedal with no modifications needed. Hope this helps!



The truck dyno’ed today at 229 Hp, and 510 Tq. The dyno was a SuperFlow WinDyn.

 

[Tim1]

Part numbers!

Grey Wolf. thank you and both your boys very much for the trouble of posting the part numbers for us. I really do appreciate it. Did you guys start with a 215HP 96 motor out of a standard 5-speed? I'll bet the old truck goes good now! Thanks again! Tim

 

[Grey Wolf]

The engine is a 190 Hp out of a manual trans Fed-Ex truck. Yes it goes quite well, at the '03 "Truckin For Kids" drags he was able to outrun a new ('03) stock Cummins HO. He was a little disappointed with his diff ratio (4. 10) since it ran up against the governor about 20' before the end of the quarter mile so he may change that, but he's still a happy camper !

 

[JLEONARD]

Soooooo,

Are you guys saying that it might be a worth while effort to convert to a P pump ... . if say , one could find a P pump for between $300 and $500 ???



Comments?

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I would do it...



Deo's gonna do it when he gets out of school... He has 98% of all the stuff to do it... just needs TIME!



He's even got my OEM 12-valve 2nd Gen intercooler almost all plumbed up... You really need either an intercooler or lots of water injection to cool her down... .



Matt

 

[JLEONARD]

You really need either an intercooler or lots of water injection to cool her down

Matt,

I'm really thinking and asking the question for my son's project... the donor engine has 235 K or something like that on it and the pump sounds tired to me... although it seems to run pretty good, the pump has no snap left to it.

I'm thinking a used P pump as opposed to a spruce up job on his pump might be worth the effort and save $$. He's got to completely rewire and re-do the linkage anyway.

Oh, and he has a really large intercooler planned..... he's talking Freightliner size... . it needs to go in the bed anyway and he'll need the counterbalance.





Jay

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Oh, okay... I thought this was for your truck.



It's definitely worth the effort - the potential of the P-pump is unreal compared to the VE or even the VP pumps...



I agree - If you can get a used P-pump for a few bills, and find all the other stuff for short cake, then you'd be ahead of the game compared to rebuilding the VE...



Matt