using exhaust brake to help warm?

[EHoxie]

If you have a trailer hooked up the eb will remember it’s last setting so if the eb was turned on the last time the truck was run it will default to on when restarting. On a cold weather start even if you use remote start it will go to high idle with the eb on.

 

[Newsa]

Why does my owner's manual suggest that manually engaging the EB by pushing the EB button is advised for warming up the engine in cold weather if it does it automatically????

 

[jhenderson]

But that's not exactly a recommendation. My point is, unless you physically press that button the truck will only go into high idle. The EB does not come on unless that button has been pushed. Since I was prompted to read my owners manual, I just leafed through the cold start section. It only makes mention of high idle during extended periods. They do not recommend turning on the EB at start up, nor do they recommend letting the truck idle for longer periods. If they felt having the EB come on in cold temps was beneficial or important they'd have it in the programming with the automatic high idle. This on a 14, if their recommendations have changed I would be interested in seeing the data. I'm betting they haven't for the reasons i listed above post.
Regardless, Best practice in cold weather is to utilize the block heater for 1-2 hours (i have mine on a timer if im going to be driving my truck) start the truck, clear off the windows and get in and drive easy. I do the same with a trailer but Im also very rural so I can afford to poke a bit until temps start to come up.

I’m the one who suggested reading your owners manual. I was wrong. It’s not in the manual. It was in the owners and operating manual for the Jacobs exhaust brake in my 3rd gen. You may look up the info at Jacobs vehicle systems.com or you can Google 5.9 Cummins ex brake driving instructions. It’s on page 3 of the 4 page drivers manual, right under the caution not to use under slippery conditions. You’re familiar with Jacobs, right? They’re a subsidiary of Cummins. Therefore it’s reasonable to say Cummins advocates using the exhaust brake for faster warm ups. Just to answer your question about Cummins opinion on it’s use for engine warm up.

 

[Newsa]

In the diesel supplement it says a benefit is faster cab warm-up. (pg 50) The pages vary somewhat from year to year.

Pg 51 says the Exhaust brake will only come on if the operator turns on the switch. And it has a picture of the switch.

 

[gsbrockman]

But that's not exactly a recommendation.

Flawed programming then?

 

[JR]

I’m the one who suggested reading your owners manual. I was wrong. It’s not in the manual. It was in the owners and operating manual for the Jacobs exhaust brake in my 3rd gen. You may look up the info at Jacobs vehicle systems.com or you can Google 5.9 Cummins ex brake driving instructions. It’s on page 3 of the 4 page drivers manual, right under the caution not to use under slippery conditions. You’re familiar with Jacobs, right? They’re a subsidiary of Cummins. Therefore it’s reasonable to say Cummins advocates using the exhaust brake for faster warm ups. Just to answer your question about Cummins opinion on it’s use for engine warm up.

I will get back on this tomorrow when I can get some hard literature. I have seen, with my own eyes, PACCAR's operating parameters of their exhaust brake. One of the requirements is that ECT must be above a certain threshold for the EB to even function. I dont remember the exact temp but it was over 50*. I'm sure most on here already know the differences between Cummins and PACCAR is mostly nomenclature.

Regarding aftermarket EB on the 5.9, I'm sure many can also remember the IAT in the intake manifold getting sooted up with normal cold weather use to the point of needing cleaned. This was particularly a problem with the early 24v where the IAT was toward the back of the head.
I'll get back with a snap shot of a PACCAR manual.

 

[JR]

Flawed programming then?

If it is best practice than it is definitely flawed programming that it does not come on everytime with the high idle, regardless of last position of the button.

 

[Too Tall]

comrades!

it was 70 - 80 last week in colorado

this week it has been 30. i turned on the EB today for the first time since new while idling.

it warmed up pretty fast, in my opinion. was 19 out. idled for approx 10 minutes.

will this practice hurt anything?

thank you comrades in advance.

2018 2500 cummins g56

cheers!

No, in fact the manual recommends using the exhaust brake to warm up. It's only on when idling however, as soon as you give it throttle, the exhaust brake discontinues.

 

[SnoKing]

Why does my owner's manual suggest that manually engaging the EB by pushing the EB button is advised for warming up the engine in cold weather if it does it automatically????

They automagically part is if the EB button is pushed and the motor is cold enough it will activate the EB at idle in park or in gear at a stop light before the engine is warmed to a certain temperature. With my Bank EB on my 2001.5 it was 140 degrees. I think the 2015 RAM is similar, it that as the temp gauge comes up the EB no longer engages at idle. In warmer climates one my never see this functioning. SnoKing

 

[Newsa]

Recommended by who? I've not seen any recommendation from Cummins other than high idling during extended idle. Personally I feel running the EB on a cold engine with no load for extended intervals introduces soot into the oil. The best thing you can do for your truck is use the block heater for an hour or two depending on ambient temps, start the truck up allow oil pressure to come up and drive easy. Even the current trucks with egr take a long time to come up to temp in frigid weather .

Also, my EB does not come on with the high idle. Ive been in -25*F temps so far and seen nothing but high idle.

The compression ratio of an ISB 6.7 is 17.3:1.

This compression ratio creates enough pressure (and soot when cold starting) to blow soot by the rings into the oil. I am not concerned about an additional 35+/- psi of back pressure caused by the exhaust brake at idle and whether that would soot my oil.

Chances are if it takes half the time to warm up with the exhaust brake (as compared to without), you are likely shooting the oil less when warming up with the exhaust brake.

I do have an amsoil bypass filter installed though to catch that extra soot..... just in case I am wrong in my reasoning. Running 2 oil filters in my opinion is better than running one.

 

[Ozymandias]

In the diesel supplement it says a benefit is faster cab warm-up. (pg 50) The pages vary somewhat from year to year.

Pg 51 says the Exhaust brake will only come on if the operator turns on the switch. And it has a picture of the switch.

So does my Gen.3 with the OEM Jacobs Brake.
It is on at idle till around 170°F Water Temperature, above that the ECM switches it OFF.
If the Water Temperature falls below that Level it is switched On again.

I call that Recommended - by Cummins.

Source >>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAAegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw2H195JsUDBAWu1Xup3m13L

Read Section 11- Features

 

[gsbrockman]

If it is best practice than it is definitely flawed programming that it does not come on everytime with the high idle, regardless of last position of the button.

No offense.....but I feel more comfortable using factory programming as-is versus the opine of a diesel truck forum member.

 

[JR]

This compression ratio creates enough pressure (and soot when cold starting) to blow soot by the rings into the oil. I am not concerned about an additional 35+/- psi of back pressure caused by the exhaust brake at idle and whether that would soot my oil.

I wouldn't be concerned about any of it either if I lived in a region that barely sees temps below 50*. I don't do any warm up at those temps and below other than to let the oil pressure come up.
Everyone seems to be missing the most basic point I'm making here. Going back to what Cummins recommends, not an exhaust brake manufacturer but Cummins, they specifically state in the manual to start up, allow oil pressure to fully come up, and drive easy until operating temps come up. Every single engine manufacturer I've seen recommends the same. We can all agree on their reasoning, can we not agree that Putting unnecessary back pressure on a cold engine exacerbates the problem. It may only be a minute or two before the pistons/rings expand enough but it is still happening. Running a block heater for an hour and a half in single digit weather costs me less than 7 cents and gets my ECT up to 60-70*F if I have my winter front on. Cummins says anything over 5-10 minutes idling on a cold engine is considered excessive, I doubt you could hit 70* ECT from a cold start by fast idling with or without an EB, and you'd likely be burning more than 7 cents worth of fuel to do so.

 

[JR]

No offense.....but I feel more comfortable using factory programming as-is versus the opine of a diesel truck forum member.

None taken. This all in good discussion on my end. But again, if they felt it was beneficial, why aren't they ALL programmed that way, regardless of last position of button. Theres ALOT of pickups on the road that don't have the same programming. As you said, I'd rather listen to what's recommended by the engine manufacturer than others opinions, and nowhere will you see any manufacturer recommend it. Just sayin'.

 

[jhenderson]

None taken. This all in good discussion on my end. But again, if they felt it was beneficial, why aren't they ALL programmed that way, regardless of last position of button. Theres ALOT of pickups on the road that don't have the same programming. As you said, I'd rather listen to what's recommended by the engine manufacturer than others opinions, and nowhere will you see any manufacturer recommend it. Just sayin'.

Are you just ignoring my info or do you really think recommendations of a wholly owned subsidiary of Cummins doesn’t reflect their opinion? Do you call Cummins manufactured and supplied ex brake “ aftermarket” ?

 

[Ozymandias]

Why do you can not accept this?
#ad

 

[kthaxton]

Stand firm! Never give up!

 

[JR]

Are you just ignoring my info or do you really think recommendations of a wholly owned subsidiary of Cummins doesn’t reflect their opinion? Do you call Cummins manufactured and supplied ex brake “ aftermarket” ?

I'm not ignoring anything. Please tell me where Cummins recommends the use of the exhaust brake to warm the engine up on the engine in question. Your reference is a piece of literature for a 14 year old pre emissions engine, am i supposed to follow that over my 4 year old owners manual that says start and drive easy? This with a factory integrated exhaust brake, not an add on.

I'll counter you with your own question about wether or not your paying attention. What do you suggest places less wear on the engine, utilizing the block heater prior to start up and driving easy until operating temps, which is what i have suggested since my first post, or starting a cold engine and immediately ramp up to high idle/EB. Go back and re read the OP statement where he let it idle for 10 minutes, and my initial response and tell me where i am wrong. On a cold engine 10 minutes is Cummins stated maximum idle time. Do you really recommend that over using a block heater which is in all practical terms more economical than wastefully idling an engine, not to mention the long term effects of cold starting and idling an engine that Cummins has acknowledged since the days of static timing?

 

[JR]

Duplicate

 

[jhenderson]

First you wanted proof from Cummins. You got it, but didn’t want to read it or admit it. Now you’re quoting the owners manual that wasn’t good enough for you when you wanted Cummins blessing. Read the drivers instructions. They're from cummins. Whether an engine is pre or post emissions has nothing to do with your argument. As a matter of fact, post emission engines should be less affected since they produce far less soot even without after treatment than pre emission engines. Remember in cylinder egr ? But go ahead, keep moving the goal posts. I can see you squirming from here.

P.S. please tell us why the ex brake activates at idle when turned on until the engine reaches operating temp if Cummins didn’t intend it to.