Using Waste Motor Oil for Diesel Fuel

[mhenon]

Waste oil use

Since the Frantz by-pass filter is now installed I'm thinking of doing this: Bleed off an extra 2 quarts of oil from the out-flow of the Frantz just before changing the TP filter. It's just come through the TP so no nasty particles to worry about. I can just put that oil in the fuel tank for a little lube to the VP44. Two quarts of used engine oil to 100 quarts of fuel... 2%... well within Cummins limits.

Now, after changing the TP filter, I'll be about 3 quarts low. . the 2 quarts that I bled off and 1 for the new TP filter.

If I change TP filters every 3500 miles the engine oil will be completely changed in 14k miles. I don't see any need to "ever" drain the oil from the pan. Am I missing something here or is this a "no-brainer"?

I really used to like changing oil and filters... . made me feel like I was taking care of my toys. The older I get the less I enjoy it.



Mike

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Mike, I'm thinking along the same lines you are - if we change TP cartridges in the Frantz every 2-3K, plenty of makeup oil for additive package purposes, and the excellent filtering ability of the Frantz certainly keeps the oils clarity perfect. I am thinking the need to even change the stock full-flow filter could be greatly extended - at least out to 10-15K, especially if one like the excellent Fleetguard 3894 is used.



I'll know lots more, and be better able to come to an informed decision as my extended oil drain "test" progresses - just changed my oil at 5000 miles, heavy towing use the last 1000 of those miles with the COMP at 3x3 - more fuel, load + grades, more soot and darker oil - now with about 200 miles on the new filters, oil is nearly clear as new again... Oil sent in for analysis, should have results back soon...



JEEZE, I *love* these filters!

 

[John - K5AWO]

I'll go you one better. Make a tee in the discharge line from the TP filter and two little gate valves. Use the 2nd side of the tee to discharge that old oil into the fuel tank.



Once you know how long it takes to run 2-3 quarts thru the TP filter, you can just time it by miles or time elasped. No mess, no fuss.



For me, I will just let it go for a gallon's worth, stop and pour in a fresh gallon.



This would be the perfect reason to install one of those capacitance level guages in the oil pan.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Just for grins, I think I'll clean out a couple of my old plastic barrels real good, and play around with a 50/50 mix of diesel and used vegetable oil - IF I can find a source for the oil...



I can easily filter it using my spare Frantz filter setup and lift pump, using one of my spare batteries and my solar panel - free energy all around, except for whatever diesel fuel I hafta use to "cut" the veggie oil...

 

[John - K5AWO]

Gary,



Check out the chinese restaurants first. Stay away from the guys who fry burgers.



You definitely don't want solid animal fats.



My rule: Can't see the bottom of the tank..... Look for another tank.



Premix the veggie 50/50 with diesel, makes it a whole lot easier to filter.



One thought on the TP fitlers. Water will stop those things up real fast..... but for 29 cents a roll, why worry?



You do know that diesels will run on 100% veggie and love it..... as long as the temperature of the oil is above 150* F.



For me, I just premix 50-50 and forgo the heated lines. No problems in warm weather. chillly weather? don't use veggie unless you have heated lines and the oil is above 150*F to the injection pump.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I think the idea one of the guys had as to first pass filtering thru discarded standard oil filters is a good and cheap one - once the larger crud is eliminated, then the finer filtration can come into play. I've pulled a 30 and 50 gallon drum from my supply, they need cleaning inside REAL bad - sure wish I had a pressure washer - but may take them down to a local coin-op carwash to spray them out - then make the rounds of the Chinese food joints... .

 

[Ralph Wood]

I haven't heard about them for awhile but Cummins had a system where oil was pumped out of the engine and into the fuel tank as you drive. Oil from a new tank of oil was pumped into the engine. It was probably controlled by a computer. This requires a very good fuel filter. One advantage of the large filters is you are adding a lot more makeup oil at filter change. If the large filter has as good an element it would filter better than the small filter at the same rate of flow. Three TP filters filtering at One qt per minute. My 6. 9 Ford diesel needs the Motor Guard changed about every 2,000 miles to avoid needing to change oil. I add used oil to the fuel tanks but I add the oil to a full tank of fuel and allow it to mix good while I am running on the other tank. I have an overkill fuel filter system. If I wanted to add used oil from the Motor Guard I would add it to the line that returns the fuel to the tank from the injection pump. That would help it mix. A glob of unmixed oil could lock up the pump. The process of removing the sulfur destroys the lubricity of the diesel. The Motor Guard doesn't depend on pressure to seal the element and has larger ports and lower internal resistance than the Frantz so it is the better fuel filter. If I had some concern about using it for fuel on a Cummins Dodge I would install a gauge between the lift pump and the injection system. The Ford Powerstrokes don't have a problem.

I have been selling Motor Guards to people for filtering cooking oil for fuel. I got a call from a guy wanting a filter to filter cooking oil. I asked him what engine he had. He said vehicle? I have a resturant in Great Britian!



Ralph

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"The Motor Guard doesn't depend on pressure to seal the element and has larger ports and lower internal resistance than the Frantz so it is the better fuel filter. "



Ralph, the Frantz fuel filter, like the one I use on my '02, uses all 3/8 inch lines and fittings, as well as the filter inlet/outlet ports in the filter itself - actually larger than what the stock Dodge uses at the Frantz filter/LP connecting points, which sorta makes larger sized lines and fittings pointless unless the ENTIRE Cummins fuel delivery system is upgraded to match - what size does yours use that makes it "better"?



In my opinion, without other significant fuel system alterations, the ONLY way one filter can be "better" than another is (1) greater filtration ability (down to smaller particle size), or (2) greater flow capability at the same or greater filtration - and as I have pointed out, other stock system conditions pretty well limit the latter of those 2 possibilities - so are you saying your MG fuel filters will filter down to smaller particle sizes?



Have you ever done ANY actual testing or analysis in a Dodge/Cummins to back up that claim?



I've actually TESTED the flow rate of the Frantz fuel filter at about 85 GPH with a stock Carter LP, nearly TWICE the maximum flow that can possibly be used by the VP-44, and see a PSI loss on my '02 of about 3 PSI max under the heaviest load I can apply with my Comp on 5x5 - have you tried anything similar with yours?



Anyone can CLAIM their product is "better" - Slick 50 and the guys selling fuel line magnets do it all the time - since the MG filter uses the SAME technology and filtering materials as the Frantz for oil filtration, I would easily expect their relative performance to be the same - your MG *fuel* filters as I understand it, use a somewhat coarser filtering material than the Frantz's TP cartridge, which MIGHT allow somewhat better flow, IF the rest of the Cummins fuel system could take advantage of that feature - but we BOTH know that greater flow capability often comes at a PRICE - and that price is usually filtering capability - and only proper lab testing will properly display if that is true or not.



You can CLAIM product excellence all you like - but a few guys like ME will invariably ask for PROOF to back up that claim - so come prepared!



Sorry to get off-topic here guys - but didn't want to let that one pass unchallenged!



Now back to the originally scheduled program... .

 

[Ralph Wood]

My oldest filter is over 40 years old. I have a few Frantzes over ten years old. Unless they have changed there is a restriction at the outlet. The paper is too close to the outlet port. There is only two thicknesses of screens between the paper and the outlet. My oldest Frantz fuel filter is over 20 years old. I have it on an automatic transmission. I only have one Motor Guard that is over 30 years old.

At one time Frantz was the best in the world. When Motor Guard came out in 1966 I liked it better. It's like Fords and Chevies you just have to look them over and determine which one has the features you like and don't like. After over 40 years I know all of the things I like and don't like. The ports are 1/4" NPT, there is a grating in the bottom to hold the element up away from the outlet. The Motor Guard and Frantz last so long that it is important that someone knows as much about both of them as possible.

I just sold two filters to a guy that already has two Motor Guards and two Frantzs. A customer that has both will know which filter he likes best. All I can do is get people to do their research.



Ralph

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Ralph - ya need to get into THIS century - you're comparing your stuff to 40 year-old Frantz stuff - they have CHANGED, and you should SEE what they are doing today BEFORE you make claims that are innacurate!



The fittings on the Frantz FUEL filters are 3/8, NOT 1/4 and there is NO restriction in the Frantz fuel filter, PERIOD!



As to "satisfied customers", my neighbor SWEARS his fuel line magnets get him an extra 5 MPG - no, HE doesn't have any PROOF either...



I'm sure you have an excellent product - I only resist implications and comparisons that depart from reality or accuracy...

 

[Matt400]

I use a filter system that uses used automotive oil filters and a gravity feed.

Hey Steve, got any pics of that, I am curious. . and why used filters?