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VA duration box

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Dodge Power Programmer III - Any thoughts?

First tow with TST box

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Certainly in my case, the pressure box reduces EGTs. But don't get the wrong idea here -- there is no free lunch. pls read the section on stacking in the fueling box summary , where I point out:



* Stacking to add power may be counter-productive, as the fuel rail itself will probably run out of capacity. In fact, stacking to achieve additional power is usually a bad idea, at least without upgrading the fuel system. Adding fuel via electronics doesn’t mean that the mechanical system is capable of delivering it.



* Any time you add fuel (regardless of the method, i. e. pressure or duration) and then use the additional power, there will be an EGT consequence that the stock truck will not be able to handle, even with intake and exhaust modifications. For example, stacking the least powerful duration box (VA) with the least powerful pressure box (VA) will likely require a turbocharger upgrade.



* The only two stacks I am aware of that achieve a useful goal (utilizing the stock fuel system), have nothing to do with additional power – they have to do with attaining the desired fueling curve and/or a reduction in EGTs. Both the TST and the VA duration boxes have been stacked with simple pressure boxes with good results in this regard. Note, however, that the opportunity here is to achieve a reduction in EGTs by using more pressure and less duration to achieve similar power levels. This means turning the duration box down when adding a pressure box. For example, the VA duration box on its lowest setting, combined with a pressure box on a ~50 HP setting, will achieve about the same power level as the VA by itself, but will do so at lower EGTs.
 
Doug,



For example, stacking the least powerful duration box (VA) with the least powerful pressure box (VA) will likely require a turbocharger upgrade.

This leads me to believe that I would need a different turbo to utilize the power.



For example, the VA duration box on its lowest setting, combined with a pressure box on a ~50 HP setting, will achieve about the same power level as the VA by itself, but will do so at lower EGTs.



This tells me that I can use all this power without a turbo upgrade.



Doug, I'm confused, please clarify.
 
Originally posted by GWoody

Holy Cow, you guys weren't kiddiing when you said the egt's climb quick with this box. Got my gauges in last night and they climb just as everyone described above. I'm running straight exhaust cept for a full flow glass pack, 4 inch all the way, with an airaide filter, I wonder how much an afe system would help?????????



Just for perspectives. . my 95 CTD would climb in EGT about the same as the 03 with the VA duration on 100%



It was a 12 valve Cummins with 370 injectors, a bigger plate in the pump, and a 16 cm2 turbo housing. It would get up and go - even quicker than the 03 with VA at 100%. But it's EGTs would climb very fast.



However, in real world driving, it was not a problem, unless you had a pretty good load. When pulling my trailer, the EGTs would climb on some big hills, but you could just back off a little or downshift out of overdrive and all would be fine.



I'm just wondering if anyone with a VA duration box is having EGT problems in real world usage with a trailer? Are they really problems, or ones you can live with by just backing down a little? EGTs may get up there while fooling around on hills, seeing how fast we can go up them, but is it a real world problem?



Blake
 
Originally posted by GWoody

Doug,



For example, stacking the least powerful duration box (VA) with the least powerful pressure box (VA) will likely require a turbocharger upgrade.

This leads me to believe that I would need a different turbo to utilize the power.





yes, if you keep the VA on high and you add more fuel, your EGT problem will be even worse. indeed you will need a different turbo to utilize that power because the turbo you have is stretched to begin with.



For example, the VA duration box on its lowest setting, combined with a pressure box on a ~50 HP setting, will achieve about the same power level as the VA by itself, but will do so at lower EGTs.



This tells me that I can use all this power without a turbo upgrade.



maybe. I using that combo now and find that running empty I can manage the EGTs by backing off. With just the duration box it was unacceptable. Even with both boxes on low settings, it remains to be seen if such a combo will even be usable while towing (with the stock turbo). EGTs are bad enough the way they are.
 
I love my truck, I love my wife, she says if I spend anymore money on this truck, she's gonna leave!!!!!!!! Bigger turbo at least $1000, gee I'm gonna miss her!!!!!!!!



Just Kidding, I'll have UPS take it to the neighbors, she'll never know.

Ha Ha Ha HA
 
I have towed with VA duration on 1st setting and EX on Level 3 with not egt problems at all. I tried to push them and they topped out at 1100 or so with a 6' x 10' twin axle dump trailer loaded to the top with ceramic, sorry not sure of the weight. I KNOW if I turn up the VA box the EGT's go off the guage while running empty so I didn't think of using it like that when towing.
 
thats good to know. a bit difficult to correlate since yours is a 250HP SO but it does suggest that there may be some opportunity for exhaust and intake upgrades to help on the HOs as well.
 
I sure hope they get this timing thing figured out on the VA box. At the 50% setting I can stand on the throttle, truck launches like a rocket and egt is at 1300 before I hit 60 mph. I will be doing a lot of towing in about 2 weeks so we shall see. I can't imagine being able to tow up hills with this box even turned on. Kinda dissapointed in that regard. I would even consider a turbo upgrade if there was one that would work. Oh by the way boost was about 40 at 1300 when I let off. Kinda hard to tell though, it's a pretty quick run. Anyone got any ideas on what turbo to go to.
 
Update

We took a short vacation trip to the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania this past week. This is a beautiful area of the state with many interesting things to do. We spend several hours biking up the old abandoned New York Central RR grade through the Canyon and then rented a canoe the next day for a 10 mile jaunt. Not a bad way to spend a few days and not too far from home for me.



This was the first time we had a chance to pull a load with the VA installed. We pulled our older and relatively heavy 24 ft travel trailer. The route is all 2-lane U. S. Rt 6 from Albion to Wellsboro, Pa. , almost entirely hills and mountains, small towns, and open sections of highway. Then some smaller state routes and backroads near our destination with some really steep and long grades.



With the VA set at 50% most of the time, we had no trouble going up almost all the hills at 60-65 mph and most of the time in overdrive. EGT approached, but never exceeded 1250 deg F. The drive wheels started breaking loose a few times on hard pulls on the wet pavement. Switching to 100% while pulling the hills was like a swift kick in the butt, with lots more power. Unfortunately, EGTs would rise rather quickly and 1250 could be exceeded very fast, but even at this setting the temperatures were easy to maintain within limits by just varying the throttle. Performance and EGTs were very similar to my 1995 CTD 12 valve with big injectors and plate in the P7100 pump. In other words, power and EGTs are easily controlled by the throttle pedal and are not seen by me as a problem. It's not fool proof as things are from the factory, so you can't just stand on it and not worry about it.



The best part is we got 15 miles per gallon with a 24 ft camper, loaded with water, propane, supplies and food, and two bicycles and a cat in the truck, all going up and down big hills up to 65 mph, combined with stop and go in small towns. On a previous trip to Gettysburg last year, we got about 12 mpg all stock. Though the route was different, with the Gettysburg trip composed of much more freeway, I believe there was probably an increase in mpg due to less downshifting. At least it feels good to me!
 
I hope my 600 does as well towing as Blake on the egt, I'm afraid it will run hotter since that is a trait of the 600. I can hit 1250 on the stock setting empty by just romping on it.
 
Originally posted by GWoody

I can hit 1250 on the stock setting empty by just romping on it.



I can with mine too G. The thing is with these boxes, you have to drive with your throttle and watch the temps. Unless you have a box that will automatically back off when the temp gets high, you'll have to do it yourself. It was the same with the 12 valve engines with no computer when big injectors, etc. is added.
 
Well, just got back from hauling a p. u. about 50 mi, p. u. wt. is about 6200, 25 ft. dovetail, ??????? 5000 lb, some long hills not real steep but enough to work a truck pulling a load. 50% setting on cruise 78 mph, egt about 1300 for a short time. Forget about the 100% setting towing, egt rises way too quick, just as I started into a hill and the cruise was on I felt the truck start to pull pretty hard, I turned the dial to 100%, boost was about 33 it jumped to 45 very quickly, I switched back to 50% immediatley, won't do that again. I like the power this thing makes but I kinda think the truck would pull the same hill just as fast just by pushing the throttle down farther & not have to worry about high boost or egt. Highest egt on stock setting is about 1300 max so far. Highest boost on stock setting about 38 pulling a load. I would even consider a different turbo if I could use all the power this thing makes if it would control egt without sacrificing too much spool up. I know sounds like a twins solution, don't even wanna go there. I wished Eengel would get the pressure box on his and see if that cools these things of much.
 
I have a nice straight-through 4" Mack muffler that is about 20" long that I plan to put on when I get some time. That may help with EGTs too, as the stock muffler is one big mother. I'm sure it's a big restriction too.
 
VA C2 box first refill

I just ran my first tank through with the VA C2 box. My results(as close as I can get):



Mileage(90% city/10% highway): 15. 3 by computer; 15. 4 hand calculated.



This is up maybe . 5 to . 75 mpg over not using the box at all. Probably within the margin of error. I didn't get on it(once at the beginning) but drove like I do on a daily basis.

My EGTs seemed exactly the same during nomal driving, and didn't seem to go any higher during the "entrance ramp" incident.



My truck weighed out at 7560 with about 200 pounds of tools in it. No towing/hauling; mostly driving to work in the suburbs.



I'm quite satified with the power and would definately recommend this box.



jeff
 
Jeff, your elevation is very low (right? St. Louis is like under 500 feet, right?) and you have an upgraded intake system. Those are significant advantages to EGT control. good to know that under better (than mine) air conditions, the box handles EGTs fairly well.



I have not yet upgraded my air system and I live at 2700 ft. EGTs are a real problem for me with that box!
 
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