Valve adjustment

[prototech]

Hey guys,

I think it's time to adjust my valves, when my truck warms up it seems to loose power compared to when it's cold. I was wondering if maybe the valves might have stretched enough to keep the valves open slightly when they warm up and expand?

also I don't yet have a manual so any tips and the valve lash specs would be very helpful, any insights would be greatly appreciated,

thanks,

Proto

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

It doesn't sound like a valve issue to be honest, but a valve set is a great plan...

The lash is . 010 intake and . 020 exhaust.

You can make that a tight 10/20 and it will compliment the timing and fueling increase(s).



Now, how much power are we talkin here... . ??? What does your boost gauge tell you ???

Different sounds??

Different idle quality/levels ????



More info here Proto...



PB>

 

[dpuckett]

Proto-

Tip #1- get at least a Chilton book, it tells you how to change the fuel filter and adjust valves. If you want to go any deeper, you need a service manual.



#2. You say it loses power when it gets warm? Could be fuel return lines or air getting in somehow. How bad is it rattling, esp under load? MPGs down? (besides the customary 10% for winter). Ok- though not great- on bottom, but gets doggy at higher loads/ RPM?



Valve lash- . 010" intake; . 020" exhaust.



Find TDC, either with the timing pin, or the valve overlap method, which is still above my head... . Using timing pin, (under the pump on the back of the gear housing, above and to the insde of the PS pump, real PITA to get to), make sure it clicks into place. It will go in quite a bit before it rides against the cam gear. If your fingers are small enough, you can take the pin out, and stick your finger in the hole (no comment from the peanut gallery, CB or EC Jay ), and feel for the notch in the back of the cam gear as you turn the engine.



ONce you have accomplished that half hour task, you are ready to adjust the valves. Remove the valve covers, and adjust the Intake and Exhaust on #1, then alternate I, E, I, E on cylinders #2, 3, 4, 5. In other words, Intake on #1, 2, and 4; exh on #1, 3, 5. Mark your H- balancer, turn the engine crank 360 deg. Start at #6, doing intake and exh, and alternate as you come forward one vlave per cylinder, doing I, E, I, E, on #5, 4, 3, 2. Clear as mud, huh? Intake valves are the frontmost valves per cylinder; exhasut are the rear, and slightly outboard ones. If you have any oil seepage from the gaskets, I'd recommend replacing them, but then I hate any and all oil leaks. Sometimes you can reuse the gaskets, but they usually start to leak after the second reuse.



Good luck.



Daniel

 

[bmoeller]

http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/valve_adj/12_valve.html Tips at the bottom of the page, too.



You don't really need the special tools that can be used. Have heard some use the nut on the alternator to turn the motor over. When I did it the first time (prior to the TDR), I removed my inspection cover under the T/C, and used a pry bar to turn it over, prying on the ring gear. Had my dad help top-side and he pushed the timing pin for me. Will try the alt. nut this next time.

 

[bmoeller]

Man you guys type fast! :-laf

 

[LV-CTD]

I used this web page as a guide for the first time I adjusted mine. http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/valve_adj/12_valve.html

I used the last method, the companion cylinder method, to find TDC. I used a 7/8 socket on the alternator nut to rotate the engine. Also, be very careful not to over tighten your adjustment screws, they'll break! Don't ask me how I know Now I have several spares! Make sure you have a good quality torque wrench or just tighten them very snug. Besides, I'm not certain that the torque listed on that page is accurate. I'm sure someone else will give us the correct torque. I have a '93 service manual on order so I can't look it up just yet. Still, it's not a very difficult thing to adjust the valves on these engines. Not nearly the job as my Porsche 914 and even that one isn't tough.



Tom

 

[bgilbert]

Anyone know what an average shop charges for a valve adjustment? If its anywhere near or less than I'd say $200, I vote for have the shop do it. Been there done that. On a average to tall 4x4, oh boy, fun fun!! Yeah its an easy procedure, but your back and the rest of your body will appreciate having someone else do it. jmo Bill

 

[phillips5]

I bought a special valve adjustment tool kit (in plastic case) from cummins comes with directions . My thought on the power loss is more power when it is cold because the KSB is energised. Maby you need a timing advanced. With gear,bushing,and bearing wear the timing does retard orer time.

 

[prototech]

Originally posted by phillips5

My thought on the power loss is more power when it is cold because the KSB is energised. .

please enlighten me about KSB?



dpuckett, when I first replaced the boots on my intake system, I could take off quick and I had alot of top end too. then it seems like it's getting slower, sometimes I really have to push it to get the turbo to spool up, sometimes it will spool up really quick. I have been using a cheap pressure gauge until I can get my new gauges in so I don't know how accurate it is, but when its running good I get about 20 psi and most of the time I get about 15psi at full throttle. It seems like it runs the best when I leave work in the afternoon and it has to cold start with the intake heater. I just need to get my gauges in so I can start dialing the pump up. any way thanks for all the helpful info.

Proto

 

[EZGZ]

I didn't have much luck turning my engine over with tools.

But I had a level garage and driveway.



So just left the key out of the ignition and put the truck in 3rd gear. Took all the valve covers off.



Couldn't find the darn timing pin so just figured by watching the valves operate which stroke I was on. When I got one group done I just pushed on the truck and rolled it backwards far enough to go to the next cylinder.



Just think safety if you do this. Wouldn't hurt to have someone sitting in the truck and operate the E brake.



Good luck hope it is just a tight valve.

 

[phillips5]

Maby I said wrong but the ksb Is the cold start It advances the timing for cold starting when the intake temp. risis the cold start kicks out. I think everyone has been calling the cold start solinoid the ksb. I thought cold started with a C myself.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ksb is right... .



Bob.

 

[dpuckett]

Sounds more to me like a fuel delivery inconsistency to me. Most obvious sign of valves is a high pitched rattle, almost like a PSD or cold IDI 7. 3. Run some injector cleaner through it. If you werent 3 states away (big ones, to boot), I'd come adjust them for $200.



I'd tend to agree with phillips5- timing retard could be the culrpit. Blue or whitish/ bluish smoke under accelaeration? that is a sign of low combustion temps (though not necesarily EGT), resulted form retarded timing. You need an advance, anyway, so kill that bird ASAP. With gear and internal pump wear, they can retard as much as 4 deg, or back to about 1. 05mm lift. If you get it done, go to about 1. 45-1. 55mm.



Daniel

 

[prototech]

That makes alot of sense about the KSB, I'm in the middle of installing my pyro and boost gauge tonight and I'm going to adjust the valves and the timing on saturday after I have had time to get some baseline readings. I talked to the previous owner a few weeks ago and he said the injector pump was replaced at about 200k, It looks brand new and still has the no tamper paint on the exterior bolts so I am pretty sure it's not worn out yet, they probably set it to factory specs. don't get me too wrong, the truck runs really smooth but I don't get much black smoke, only on a hard take off, most of the time its white. I have just gotten a tase of what it's capable of so I get dissappointed when it changes. oh and I can't think in metric but I was going to try 1/8" advance and go from there, thanks again for all of the helpful info.

Proto

 

[dpuckett]

If you have a rattle, poor MPGs, and WHITE smoke, I'd almost bet your timing is retarded. I had a 93 that I tried to advance the timing on, and couldnt get the pump to budge. SO I tried the go south to bump it hard to get it to go north, so to speak, and didnt get it far enough back up. Ended up with a HORRIBLE rattle, white smoke, looked like a BBQ gone bad. So that means, if the shop used the timing pin for TDC, (as many dont know about timing pin inaccuracies- just ask them) that your timing pin is off. That would also explain why you have more pep when cold, and the KSB has advanced it 2 deg or so.....



Try marking your pump to gear housing flanges, then move the pump enough UPWARD to get about 1/8" clearance between the marks, and see if that helps. On an IC truck, you can go farther above stock than you can on a nonIC.



Daniel

 

[prototech]

Hey daniel,

I advanced the pump tonight, moved it 1/8"(man what a b**** that was!) It smoothed out the idle some and the low end is a little better, but I don't get any high end power and I couldn't get the boost to go over 15 psi, but I didn't have much time to drive it tonight. my egt never went over 1000*, so on Saturday I am going to start adjusting the pump after I adjust the valves, thanks again, I really appreciate all the help and info I get on this forum, I has been very enlightening!

Proto

 

[dpuckett]

White smoke COULD (though I'd put it down the list of likely) be an injector stuck halfway shut, clogged all to heck, or something along those lines. Try everything else, then if you still have the problem, pull them and get them pop tested. If they are bad, you can get a set of PODs or EDMs. Nto sure what to tell you in the way of low power in the middle and top, unless yor guide pin (inside the AFC housing) isnt travelling like it should, or the AFC hose is broken. But then, why is it good when cold, but tapers off when hot?... ..... Hafta think on this one. Getting dry here (relatively speaking), so I better watch it so I dont burn anything down.



Daniel

 

[prototech]

Well I adjusted the valves yesterday, they were really loose, about twice the spec. but it was really simple with the info I got here! I found that a 10mm socket fits on the end of the alternator shaft and you can turn the engine backwards but not forward, the belt just slips when you try to go forward. any way I made some adjustments to the pump and I am finding that everything seems to be set really conservative, but I have better performance now I think I am going to advance the pump a bit more when I get a chance, thanks for all of your help!

Proto

 

[prototech]

oh yeah, now I get a puff of black smoke on take-off, but I still haven't exceeded 20psi boost.

Proto

 

[dpuckett]

Originally posted by prototech

... ... but I still haven't exceeded 20psi boost.

That will come with more fuel.....



DP