Valvoline supercedes ATF+4

[CrimeFighter]

This week I was intending on dropping my pan changing my filter and adding new atf+4 purchased from the dealer, as this is the only place I could find it. So just for sh-ts and giggles I call Valvoline instant oil change and ask if they have ATF +4, and they say they have a product that supercedes it. Knowing our owners manual says ATF+4 only for the auto trans I was quite skeptical. . I wanted to go this route with the oil change place as they have the transfer machine to suck the fluid out of the torque converter too. . Yes I called all the dealers around me and none of them flush the system, they only drop the pan/change the filter.



So long story short, I had a hard time believing some 19 yr old kid telling me my $40K truck will be ok using this Trans fluid. So I called Valvoline direct, I spoke with a "product tech" who seemed very knowledgeable and confirmed that this product does infact meet/supercede ATF+4. It’s called MAXlife ATF. On the label it says its for veh over 75,000 miles but while talking to the tech it became apparent that that is just a marketing gimmick, as they say they recommend it in use of new vehicles also.



Has anyone tried this ?

 

[Grayhackle]

If you do a search ATF+4 or transmission fluid, you will find pages of info. I went through this recently. No one seems to know what atf4 is except Chrysler. I was told to just use Dexron III at many places. Some places told me to stick with what the dealer has. The problem is, if you put something else in there and you have transmission problems you might have a problem with warranty issues. If the dealer does an analysis they can nail you. I am really amazed that other transmission fluid manufacturers haven't brought this to a head. It has been 2 years now and no aftermarket substitute is available.

I also discovered that my Camry takes a transmission fluid designated as T-4 and it is only available at the dealer. I called their service dept and they said "Oh, just use Dexron III, it will be ok. "

My advice is to bite the bullet and use that high priced stuff. Save the receipt!

 

[klenger]

Amsoil claims that their ATF is "Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications: ... Chrysler; ATF+ through ATF+4... "



I just bought a couple of qts to change the fluid in my xfer case. I used it in the xfer case in my 01. 5 too. It would seem that if you had a failure and the dealer said it was caused by using the incorrect fluid, Amsoil would have a hard time denying responsibility to the claim. Of course, it might take a law suit to prove the point.

 

[CrimeFighter]

If you do a search ATF+4 or transmission fluid, you will find pages

I did and I didnt see anything on this Valvoline MAXLIFE .

The problem is, if you put something else in there and you have transmission problems you might have a problem with warranty issues. If the dealer does an analysis they can nail you.

My advice is to bite the bullet and use that high priced stuff. Save the receipt!

Like I said, I would like to get the stuff out of the converter. I dont mind paying the xtra $$. for the dealer ATF +4, but I would only be dropping the pan. I also brought up the Idea of this MAXLIFE voiding warranty to this tech, and of course they say that how can they void the warranty, its the same stuff if not better. If that becomes a problem then I guess they (Valvoline) can replace my 47re with a 48

 

[Tryingit]

I would be extremely careful about using anything other than atf+4. On my other site Diesel ran forums a transmission expert talks a great deal not using anything other than atf+4 for transmissions that call specifically for an atf+4. Apparently this atf+4 is designed just for our transmissions. If these other companies's products did exceed oem speciifcations they would proudly list it on their product. Please check this link. Dodge has posted a TSB about their atf+4 fluid.



http://www.dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/21-004-04.htm

 

[rbattelle]

I'm afraid I must agree with others' that you should stick with the ATF+4, no matter how criminal it is that it's only available at the dealer.



I understand your desire to suck out all the fluid, but I think the need to stick with ATF+4 supercedes that desire. Perhaps you could supply Valvoline with the ATF+4 yourself?



-Ryan

 

[klenger]

Tryinget:



Is there an equivilant TSB for ATF+4 in the xfer cases? I would assume that a transfer case is a much less critical application as it does not have a valve body (whatever that is), a torque converter (whatever that is), or synchros.

 

[DPKetchum]

Amazed that the dealers you delt with didn't have a flush machine. The dealers I worked at had them asap with they deput. Even the LITTLE dealer near my home(4 techs)has one!

 

[Matt400]

If its printed on the container to meet or exceed +4 then DC can't deny warranty cuz you didn't use "their" brand. It would be like having to use the factory motor oil.

My source says the Max Life ATF has no +4 on the bottle. .

 

[rbattelle]

Is there an equivilant TSB for ATF+4 in the xfer cases? I would assume that a transfer case is a much less critical application as it does not have a valve body (whatever that is), a torque converter (whatever that is), or synchros.

Hey Klenger, great minds must think alike because I immediately thought about my transfer case too. I'm willing to bet we could run almost any ATF in the transfer case without concern, yet I will continue to use ATF+4 because some part of me is afraid that if I don't something bad will happen. Sometimes I'm such a goober.



Not to hijack the thread, but a valve body is basically the controller for an automatic transmission. I've always thought of it as a circuit that uses fluid instead of electricity. As different pressures are applied along different paths in the "circuit", various solenoids and servos go about the task of clamping and releasing the bands that control what gear you're in. Even electronically controlled transmissions still have a valve body, but I'm not entirely clear how the electronic solenoids relate to the valve body.



A torque converter is a fluid drive mechanism that provides a fluid coupling between the engine and the transmission. The engine spins a set of stator vanes arrayed around the toroid (dount) shaped case and the transmission is attached to a turbine in the middle of the case. As the vanes spin up from the engine, a torque is induced in the turbine via the ATF and power is transferred to the transmission. A lockup device is usually included that uses a clutch mechanism to mechanically lock the turbine and the stator together.



And automatic transmissions don't have synchros. I'm not an automatic transmission expert (I rebuilt one once, but that doesn't make me an expert) so if I've said anything wrong someone please correct me. I mean no offense to anyone here... and again I'm sorry to hijack the thread.



-Ryan

 

[Tryingit]

I'm not aware of any Tsb for the tranfer cases. I imagine that it not nearly as critical as the trans. The expert on my other forum has reported numerous trans failures, mainly DC has not licensed anyone or anybody to make a fluid that is a true A+4 replacement. This makes the dealer A+4 fluid the ONLY fluid that will work in your trans and make it work properly. Since the OEM is allready a synthetic, why replace it anyway. A trans is not an engine and even if you put in the worlds best fluid that never breaks down you still have to change it regularly to keep out contaminates, wear particules and moisture that can bring down a trans. With a regular service being the center of the life of the trans then the dealer fluid is not only the only fluid to use, it is also the most economical fluid to use.

Seeing as how DC has not released any licenses for the replication of A+4 any company doing so at this point would be violating a copyrght and trademark. Instead a few call it A+4 compatible but be aware, it does cause problems and voided warranties. There has been a lot of 'up in arms' about getting the MM act involved but thats gotten nowhere either.



The above is a direct quote from an expert ( who rebuilds and modifies) transmissions for a living. I'm including this information to hopefully prevent somebody from future grief. Why try to cut corners by saving a few dollars. The oem fluid is a synthetic and will not cause you any warranty problems down the road.

 

[klenger]

My comment about the synchros was in reference to using unapproved lubricants in the NV5600. One of the reasons that I decided to go with the Amsoil in my xfer case this time is because I had a quart of the stuff left over from when I changed the stuff in my 01. 5, so I only needed two more. Next time I change the xfer case fluid, I might go with the oem stuff since you don't need all that much of it anyway. Who know, by then, maybe someone will have a legitimate replacement for it.

 

[Tony T.]

Don't know what the price is now on the ATF+4, but I checked with a parts man friend of mine at DC an he said he could sell it to me for $3. 65 a quart an if I bought it by the gallon a little cheaper. This was last Nov/04 when I last checked with him. What is the going price at the dealership now. I'll need some before long.



Tony

 

[Matt400]

The only other fluid I know of that specifies for Chrysler products is this one along with Amsoil



Amsoil specifically states ATF+4 but last I checked was more money than the DC stuff.

The Pennzoil stuff says:

Multi-Vehicle ATF is recommended by Pennzoil® for Chrysler automatic transmissions

but that could mean +3 vehicles.



+4 from the Dealer seems like the best route for price and warranty.

 

[CrimeFighter]

If its printed on the container to meet or exceed +4 then DC can't deny warranty cuz you didn't use "their" brand. It would be like having to use the factory motor oil.

My source says the Max Life ATF has no +4 on the bottle. .

I checked too. Then i went to the website and found this:





Product Specs

Recommended for use where the following fluids are specified:



Ford MERCON

GM DEXRON III, DEXRON III-G

GM DEXRON, DEXRON II, DEXRON IIE

Ford M2C138-CJ

Ford M2C166-H

Allison C-4



Valvoline also recommends for use in Chrysler vehicles (including ATF+3 and ATF+4™).







I wasnt so comfy with "recomends" so I then contacted the instant oil change place and they,Valvoline, have since printed out some litature that says meets or exceedes. .

 

[Matt400]

Valvoline also recommends for use in Chrysler vehicles (including ATF+3 and ATF+4™).



they,Valvoline, have since printed out some litature that says meets or exceedes. .

I didn't see that but do now... found it here



Thats good to know, now if they will just print the meets or exceeds on the bottle that would be great. Good find CrimeFighter.

 

[Matt400]

Oh no... new info just in on the MaxLife from Valvoline. They stated in Dec 04 that while they say its fine in +4 applications DC has not tested nor approved it for use.



I can't post the pdf doc. here but can email a copy to anyone that wants one, just pm me.

 

[CrimeFighter]

Matt400, i tried to pm you but for some reason its not working on my end. If you can just email it to me through my profile. . thanks

 

[Matt400]

CrimeFighter. . you have mail.

 

[klenger]

I would not expect DC to ever test any after-market products and approve them, with the exception of products that they plan to sell, like the Jacobs exhaust brakes.