VE-44 pump cost

[1stgen4evr]

"Is this a reasonable guess assuming no restrictions in the fuel line or fuel pump?"



I am going to try to send you a couple of pages from the manual. PM your email.



But the answer is 'not likely'.



James

 

[Paychk]

FSM lists fuel return line restriction as 20. 4 in. Hg. Max. not sure what that is?



20. 4 inches mercury = 10. 02 PSI

 

[btoscano]

How can the return line have a vacuum? Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong.



I am wondering if it best to put the clear fuel line before the lift pump or after the return lines join together on the block (at the quick disconnect) or both!



Does anybody know the model number or part number so that's its easy to order new quick disconnect fittings?



Really hoping to figure this out before I need to pull a 30HP Kubota w/ FEL on a double axle trailer on the freeway.



TIA,

Brian

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Maybe I missed these suggestions but... ... are you sure the fuel guide pin is working ok and, are you sure you're getting a boost signal to the afc housing. . ??? If not that will create similar symptoms.....



pb. .

 

[btoscano]

I am not sure of the failure mode of these two items?



I put a boost pressure guage on the manifold and it got up to 19 psi I also removed the AFC cover and looked at it, and it looked fine.



As an example of the problem, it was a bit lethargic on some hills and then 2-3 minutes later on the second steepest freeway grade in the state it did okay for 6+ miles at 80 MPH w/ the A/C. I did not try to go faster because of traffic.



My concern is that someone has already had their hands on this pump so I'm not sure if there is a pump problem if its worth re-rebuilding or if I should just get a "new" one from Piers or something like that...



Brian

 

[btoscano]

Fuel psi gauge

I got the banjo bolt from Geno's today so I put it in place of the banjo bolt with the bleeder screw. I use a Sunpro oil psi gauge from Sunpro available at McParts with their plastic hose kit. At idle, stationary truck in my driveway fuel psi was 5 psi. If I rev it up it will stay at 5 psi or even drop. This was with the gauge at top radiator level. if I put the gauge on the gravel, it would increase???? Do I need a better setup or are my fuel supply or return lines totally messed up? I can order a real fuel psi gauge if that's what it takes. But I surely didn't expect this at idle, in my driveway - why does the elevation of the gauge matter?



Brian

 

[bgilbert]

I'm not sure why the elevation is changing, I wouldn't worry about it. You lift pump is FINE. Don't spend anymore money on another fuel pressure gauge. 5-7psi is the spec for idle pressure. I would venture a guess of why it increases is since its a mechanical pressure gauge, you're making it easier for the fuel to travel down. If you had an electrical gauge your pressure would remain consistent no matter where the gauge was. Keep the Geno's high flow bolt in there, just put a pipe plug in the port. Keep your plastic line and cheap gauge for pressure checks in the future.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ummm..... correct me if I'm wrong but, I thought that idle value should be roughly 12-14psi and at WOT no less than 3psi (now that's according to the book but who believes in that thing??)



I really think we need to be running no less than 10-14 psi at WOT, no less.

If you really plan to push these things harder... (been experimenting lately) you will definitely need more than that... more in the order of 18-20 psi at WOT...

If you go with the "big head" then you're still too low at that value...



pb...

 

[bgilbert]

Bob, that is the spec for a low pressure 'piston' lift pump. You sure won't see 12-14psi with a diaphragm lift pump. Stock diaphragm lift pump pressure spec is 5-7psi after the filter, before the injection pump. With my new Westach 'electric' fuel pressure gauge, I haven't seen below 11psi with this 'big head' pump. Previously was seeing 6psi at wot with a mechanical gauge. I feel this is just a difference between the two gauges. You are correct on the minimum 3psi at wot according to the book. BTW thanks for the PM. I will be doing valve springs soon, and will redo valve lash.

 

[btoscano]

I talked with Piers yesterday and they confirmed the 5 psi at idle and 3 psi mininum. I am going to take the gauge for a ride and see what it reads on the freeway at WOT. I'm going to take the AFC diaphram apart and make sure the pin comes out of the bore and clean it out with WD-40 as necessary. Then I'm giong to put some anti-seeze on the fuel pin itself. The last time I looked at the fuel pin it didn't seem shaped the way you all describe. Now that I know for sure what I'm looking for I hope to find it!



-brian

 

[btoscano]

On a side note, I'm real surprised nobody said what size the fuel lines are in my other thread? They LOOK the same size - supply and return - to me. I have the ones that are plastic from engine to tank. I know the quick disconnect fittings on the fuel pump housing are different. I am not sure about the ones on the engine.



Anybody know for sure what size all these parts are?



I am thinking of replacing them all when I put some new clear lines in near the engine so I can easily check for bubbles!



Brian

 

[btoscano]

AFC issues found!

This morning I tore into the AFC looking for problems. Here's what I found:



The pin that comes out the side of the bore at full throttle has some unusual behavior. First, one time it didn't come out at all. Second, it doesn't always come out the same length! Third, and I'm not sure this is an issue, if I push it back a little with a screwdriver and then pull full throttle, it stays put (always).



2 and 3 happen even after liberal soaking with WD-40. But it seems that it come out farther after the WD-40.



How far should it come out?



Brian

 

[btoscano]

The other thing I noticed is that the amount the pin moves out depends on how fast I move the throttle. If I move it slowly it will usually come out half way in the bore. if I move it fast it will come out about 3/4.



Thanks,

Brian

 

[Greenleaf]

This is the thing... .....



The O ring has a grip on that little pin. The faster you pull the throttle lever to WOT position the faster you are pulling on theninternal linksgaes and "snapping" the pin.



The tensoin applied to this pin while the engine is running is great. The governor has quite a bit of tension applied to the internal linkages (tensioning lever to name one) which forces the AFC lever to push the pin out and force it against the fuel control cone. That scribe mark on the control cone doesn't get there from engine vibration.



The simple way to check the pin's operation would be apply a thin coat of grease and install the cone. Thjen drive it a short distance to allow the pin to be forced out against the cone and the engine under a load. This will allow the AFC to come into play (boost pressure pushing the cone down) Then disassemble the AFC and look for the scribe mark left in the grease.



If you start the engine with the fueling pin inside the pump it can (not alway) force the pin out so fast it will go past the O ring and cause a leak. The pin can only travel so far as the internal lever that operates the AFC has to stop against the internal of the pump. This is an internal limit that is bypassed with ... ... ..... um... ... ..... certain modifications



GL

 

[btoscano]

There was some grease on the fuel pin that looked kind of old and I could see the travel and it looks like it makes full travel. I will post photos if they came out good.



So then its very possible my low power problem was the fuel pin sticking inside and not riding on the fuel pin?



What about the case where its half out, and then I move the throttle very fast and it stays half out instead of moving out some more? Is that OK ?



Brian

 

[Greenleaf]

Yes. If it moves at all your good. (unless someone seriously modified the internal pump linkage. Which you would not know by looking at the pump) The force of the governor linkages is moving it out as far as your control cone will allow. In fact a new O ring will not allow ANY movement in the pin simply by snapping the throttle. It in now way means there is a problem. However if it's truely stuck, it will not allow full pump potential.





Don't sound like that is your problem at all.



GL

 

[btoscano]

I'm going to put it all back together and see if it runs good for any length of time. Hopefully the WD-40 will make the intermittant sticking go away. If not, I guess its time for a rebuild!



Brian

 

[Steve Graham]

I'm going to put it all back together and see if it runs good for any length of time. Hopefully the WD-40 will make the intermittant sticking go away. If not, I guess its time for a rebuild!



Brian

Not to be a pain, but WD40 is the real pain. It will make things stick! It is not a good lubricant or penetrating oil. They may market it as such, but there are better products out there. IMHO.



Is there any lateral movement of the pin that rides against the ecentric cone?

If there is a lot of movement then the housing is worn and needs to be replaced.



Steve

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

As long as you are seeing a "witness mark" on the cone your pin is working ok... keep things neat and use only a touch of cone lubricant to keep your potential "gunk factor" down.



pb...

 

[btoscano]

Piers suggested the use of WD-40 so that's what I used.



I noticed it stick right before I reassembled it, so that's twice today "in the shop" that it stuck out of maybe 100 times or more that I pulled the throttle. There were metal specs in the AFC housing when I blew it out with some air.



So, it would seem the pump needs some rebuilding!



Brian