Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) VE Pump Gear Question

[sag2]

With the VE pump removed, is it possible to lift the drive gear up inside the gear housing high enough to skip a tooth? If you remove the pump, have the timing pin locked into TDC, will the keyway be lined up and the pump go directly into the gear without locking the pump in the #1 TDC position?
My students removed the pump, used the baring tool to engage timing pin at TDC, rotated the pump shaft to line up with keyway in gear, but were not able to insert pump into gear. They had to bar the engine over about 1/16" of pump gear rotation from TDC and clock the pump all the way one direction on the studs to get the pump key in the gear. They bled it but it does not want to even begin to fire. I'm thinking they may have rotated the pump drive gear and got it one tooth off? Not sure you can even do that inside the gearcase.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Ozymandias]

Seeing that picture I'd say yes you can, there is enough room around the gear to jump it.

#ad

 

[GAmes]

The timing pin slides into a hole in the camshaft gear, not the IP gear on a 12 valve. Is the 24 valve engine different?

 

[BigPapa]

He's on a 1st Gen 12 valve with the VE pump. Yes, the timing pin indexes on the cam gear, not the pump gear.

 

[GAmes]

He's on a 1st Gen 12 valve with the VE pump. Yes, the timing pin indexes on the cam gear, not the pump gear.

Thanks Scott. VE or VP I don't have any experience.

 

[BigPapa]

Thanks Scott. VE or VP I don't have any experience.

Yeah, me neither....

 

[sag2]

Well, I think we're going to just pull the cover and confirm the timing marks. Might as well take care of the KDP while the cover is off.

 

[NIsaacs]

With the VE pump removed, is it possible to lift the drive gear up inside the gear housing high enough to skip a tooth? If you remove the pump, have the timing pin locked into TDC, will the keyway be lined up and the pump go directly into the gear without locking the pump in the #1 TDC position?
My students removed the pump, used the baring tool to engage timing pin at TDC, rotated the pump shaft to line up with keyway in gear, but were not able to insert pump into gear. They had to bar the engine over about 1/16" of pump gear rotation from TDC and clock the pump all the way one direction on the studs to get the pump key in the gear. They bled it but it does not want to even begin to fire. I'm thinking they may have rotated the pump drive gear and got it one tooth off? Not sure you can even do that inside the gearcase.
Thanks for the input.

I have read this post several times but I still can't quite understand the sequence of events. What exactly did they do with the removed pump? Was this an R&R for a recon or the same pump was to be installed? I don't think the gear can jump timing. It sounds more like the pump is 180 off.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The pump shaft has a key so you can't get it 180 deg. off.

 

[sag2]

It was R&R the pump for a reseal. Same pump was reinstalled. They forgot to remove the rear bracket so they were using the gear puller to try and push the pump out since it didn't just slide out. They had it cocked pretty good by the time I caught them. So I began to wonder if they could have jumped a tooth. We will still remove the cover to verify.

 

[NIsaacs]

The pump shaft has a key so you can't get it 180 deg. off.

Yes, what was I thinking

You can use a mirror and confirm the key is not missing or somehow displaced, but if they are going to remove the front cover that is not necessary.

 

[sag2]

Update. The gear had not jumped, and looking closely it appears it would be impossible for it to jump. There is little clearance between the gear and housing in several places. Took care of the KDP while we were in there. Have a new gasket and seal coming for Monday. The reason it would not fire was air in the system. We either have a hose on the low pressure side pulling air, or a bad lift pump. I had them install a 5 PSI inline fuel pump feeding the OEM pump, bled the injectors and it fired right up. I still think we are a couple of degrees off on the timing. The punch mark on the gear housing is very faint, and looks to be possibly 1/32" off. Unfortunately they pulled it apart before confirming the punch locations. The O'ring I replaced on the governor adjustment nut appears to have stopped the fuel leak. Looks like we save the customer $6-800 pump rebuild. Also need to install the Geno's Garage battery cable kit next week.
FYI, the truck has 58,000 original miles and original owner.