Vehicle Purchase / Buying American / Frustration

[Wayne M.]

I came across the monroney for Midnite. There's a corner that shows content. I would suspect the V6 Durangos would be much higher in US content because I think the pentastar V6 is made here and the 8HP for the V6 is assembled here.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Wayne, is that 8 speed automatic transmission the same one used in the Ram 1500.

I sure like the looks of that Durango R/T. If only money were no object.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wayne, is that 8 speed automatic transmission the same one used in the Ram 1500.

I sure like the looks of that Durango R/T. If only money were no object.

Yes it is the 8HP70. IIRC it's used in all longitudinal apps. The V6 has one built in the old Kokomo Torqueflite plant, and they buy straight from ZF all the others. As mentioned, we started looking at Durango Limited V6 with certain options she wanted, and when we looked at a base RT that had all a Limited has and more for about 2500 more. A no brainer.

 

[JR]

One thing to consider on the Mitsubishi is that they are closing all production plants in the US and they will all be imported from across the pond. I read an article from Mitsu stating they fully intend to continue to sell in the US but one has to wonder if sales continue to suffer over the next few years if they will eventually pull out of the US for good. If you don't hang on to your vehicles long term it probably won't affect you either way but I can see service and support becoming a real nightmare if they withdrawal from the US.

Do your homework if your serious about the Equinox. Up until at least 12-13 they are notorious for eating transmissions at insane low mileage. I am not up to speed on whether or not the issue has been resolved but it's way more common than any salesman will admit. I've got a family member that lost one at 65k, just after his warranty expired. It wasn't a cheap fix.

I gotta admit I'm kinda partial to Fords 3 row vehicles over GM but it's purely personal preference. Explorer and Flex platforms both ride exrememly well and have proven engine/drivetrain platforms.

Good luck and have fun shopping! Are you doing any looking outside Erie?

 

[Tuesdak]

Even dealer items are no longer Made in The USA. It's sad to replace a 20 year old part that had Made In USA on it with a dealer part stamped Made in Communist China by Slaves. GM is getting pretty bad about it including wanting to be the first to import a Chinese vehicle. No unions, no expensive healthcare plans to pay for, emissions, retirement, safety for workers...

And most at the parts counter want the part to be just a little cheaper.

 

[Wayne M.]

Hey JR, do a water pump in any of those Fords?

 

[JR]

Nope, that's what they make extended warranties for . Even though I dont agree with the design the 3.5 is a robust engine. They put it in virtually every SUV/CUV, sedan/coupe in one form or another in the US and compact trucks and vans elsewhere in the world. It's become one of Fords flag ship engines and failures are not common.

They certainly all have their own issues. FCA sure isn't exempt from that statement as of late. Gotta take the good with the bad no matter what brand you end up with.

 

[1320Fastback]

Even dealer items are no longer Made in The USA. It's sad to replace a 20 year old part that had Made In USA on it with a dealer part stamped Made in Communist China by Slaves. GM is getting pretty bad about it including wanting to be the first to import a Chinese vehicle. No unions, no expensive healthcare plans to pay for, emissions, retirement, safety for workers...

And most at the parts counter want the part to be just a little cheaper.

All of our new $170,000 forklifts at work have the Teir 4 final cummins in them. Almost all visible parts say Cummins, Made in China on them. I know China can build great quality things and it is up to the retailer to set quality standards and control but for something that heavy and that expensive it's hard to imagine shipping it around the world pays off.

The machines have stickers on the side too that say Made in America.... Well not the motor!

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I have always looked at Ford in the past, and I always like sitting in them and driving them. I REALLY liked the F250 when I was looking to buy a truck.

Then I open the hood.

It almost seems to me like they have some kind of requirement to add needless complexity and cram stuff in where it does not fit. Many here on the forum are much more competent mechanically than i, so maybe not a big deal to them, but does nothing to attract me.

Continuing to look. Wanted to go V6 diesel Jeep, but only sold in higher trim in Grand Cherokee blows the budget; also, no third row. Would like third row for times when another kid to haul. Will be less and less of an issue going forward. Liked Durango a lot; somewhat larger than needed, but issue is challenge on budget. I keep telling wife low 20K, which means we'll end middle 20K after we move to trim with stuff she wants.

 

[Shadrach]

What about a Dodge Journey? It has three seats and AWD in R/T trim. My buddy has one and likes it. Third seat is usually for small kids unless you get something like an E350 van.

If the first digit of the VIN is a 1 it is built in the USA, a 2 would be Canadian and 3 is Mexico. See here for more details https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number.

I understand your dilemma. Since I am a Canadian I try to find stuff "Made in Canada". While I like to buy local I have found lots of "junk" with "Made in Canada ( or USA for that matter) stickers on them. In reality you want something built well and if our local countrymen, yours and mine, can't do that then people WILL buy items made elsewhere. Maybe Canadian and American manufacturers will take the hint and do something about it. I doubt it tho. Unfortunately since corporations are mainly interested in profit they will go wherever they can to get the best deal. Let's use Cummins for example. When you complain about parts made in China don't forget that American management made that decision. I have seen Cummins (& Fleetguard ) parts made in China, Canada, Turkey, Brazil, Spain, USA, Tunisia, Japan, the UK, & India, and that's not the whole list. If a company has share holders and investors then Profit is the key word. If I invest in a company then I am partially to blame for that as well because I want to make some profit on "my" investment. It's a vicious circle. The auto workers don't want to work for 5 bucks an hour, and I don't blame them. We all want more and that drives up the costs of our vehicles. If FCA built a truck with "all the best components" would you pay $200k for it? Very few would. A Bugatti Chiron is 2.4 m Euros but is "extremely well built". Don't forget we live in a GLOBAL world now and while we may want to buy stuff here that is made here we also want our exports to do well.

OK I'm done. Me personally I can't afford to buy new vehicles so I buy used. I used to do all my own work but with a new, or newer, Dodge it may as well be Japanese. I remember as a teen a fuel pump for a 318 was around $15 and one for a Dodge Colt with a 1.6 engine was about $52. Now everything is expensive.

The nice thing about buying used is you can see the history of the vehicle (think Edmonds or Consumers Report). Was the transmission a bad item, did it have electrical issues? Why not pick the best of the used car world and spend a few bucks on it and bring it up to "almost new".

David

 

[JR]

Unless your an ASE tech with $20k in tools you can't hardly work on any of em anymore aside from routine maintenance. We buy extended warranties when we buy just for that reason. It does add to the bottom line but one major repair will more than offset the initial cost of the warranty. One of the things I looked at when we bought new was recalls, some of what we were looking at had only a few minors while others had a real laundry list. I'll probably be chastised for saying it, but just about everything FCA is right at the top for active recalls lately. Sure they'll be covered but who wants to buy a brand new vehicle only to have to turn around and schedule it into the shop every other month.

 

[Wayne M.]

Slightly off topic but bears importance here. Appliances not vehicles.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/03/china-is-acquiring-u-s-a-one-company-at-a-time/

Found this over the weekend.

 

[Wayne M.]

Unless your an ASE tech with $20k in tools you can't hardly work on any of em anymore aside from routine maintenance. We buy extended warranties when we buy just for that reason. It does add to the bottom line but one major repair will more than offset the initial cost of the warranty. One of the things I looked at when we bought new was recalls, some of what we were looking at had only a few minors while others had a real laundry list. I'll probably be chastised for saying it, but just about everything FCA is right at the top for active recalls lately. Sure they'll be covered but who wants to buy a brand new vehicle only to have to turn around and schedule it into the shop every other month.

JR, That's not completely true. Some current vehicles are quite easy to maintain. You may need a different mindset or approach, and have some basic understandings, but it's possible to a degree. The real issue is service information and access to diagnostics. That's a problem worldwide, and why you will have no choice but to buy a warrantee. Basic maintenance is still very possible on a lot of vehicles today, and you do not need a piece of paper from the ASE. That's for sure.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

To the points made by JR and Wayne M, I look at the complexity of stuff from the perspective of maintenance. I have done almost all of the maintenance on my 2012 truck, and it has been no problem. Actually, I only have two complaints: greasing that front drive double cardan u-joint, and I can't believe we can't find transfer case lubricant that will work well and cost less than $29 a quart!!!

Shad, will take a look at a Journey. Thanks.

 

[Wayne M.]

The Journey is good, now with the pentastar. 3rd row wasn't gonna work for us. Also look at the Cherokee. My fleet just bought 65 Equinox w/ 4cyl. It wasn't a terrible oil change but the oil filter is a bear without the special wrench. It's up front and low cartridge tucked away. IIRC, the pentastars have a oil cartridge up high in the valley. Today spoke to drivers of 2 Equinox. One had a RAV4 one has a new Cherokee. Both say Equinox is way subpar to each.

 

[JR]

JR, That's not completely true. Some current vehicles are quite easy to maintain. You may need a different mindset or approach, and have some basic understandings, but it's possible to a degree. The real issue is service information and access to diagnostics. That's a problem worldwide, and why you will have no choice but to buy a warrantee. Basic maintenance is still very possible on a lot of vehicles today, and you do not need a piece of paper from the ASE. That's for sure.

Wayne, I think we are talking about the same thing. Notice I did say "aside from routine maintenance". I still do all the necessary fluid and filter changes on the wife's vehicle. That's still very doable on today's vehicles regardless of manufacturer. The only exception right off the top of my head is auto trans fluid/filter exchanges, they've made it much more difficult on the average vehicle. (Full sized trucks excluded).

 

[Wayne M.]

I consider jobs like a water pump, if not routine maintenance, a minor repair. Otherwise yes I do agree.

 

[Tuesdak]

The nice thing about buying used is you can see the history of the vehicle (think Edmonds or Consumers Report). Was the transmission a bad item, did it have electrical issues? Why not pick the best of the used car world and spend a few bucks on it and bring it up to "almost new".

David

Not true anymore because you have a hard time getting quality parts to fix up the used vehicle. Most of my misery under the hood is redoing work I have already done because some component rebuilder did a lousy job or the new part if not DOA doesn't last as long as the 20 year old part did.

I recently went through 5 rebuilt Power steering pumps including one that dusted the entire system requiring everything to be replaced. Now I will hit the junkyard for one or buy a new virgin pump - none of the shoddy reman stuff.

Don't even get me started on bad starter solenoids - I buy USA Made Powermaster starters anymore and watch others ***** about the higher cost over a Mexico or god knows where reman when I recommend them. As a society we have doomed ourselves with faster, cheaper, and we forget better.

Another lesser known quality American Appliance manufacturer is Speed Queen. You can buy them for your home. Speed Queen is a laundry machine manufacturer headquartered in Ripon, Wisconsin, USA. Speed Queen is a subsidiary of Alliance Laundry Systems LLC, which bills itself as the world's largest manufacturer of commercial laundry equipment

 

[JR]

Slightly off topic but bears importance here. Appliances not vehicles.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/03/china-is-acquiring-u-s-a-one-company-at-a-time/

Found this over the weekend.

The GE brand has been a real hot potato of late. Note the price tag Electrolux picked them up for 2 years ago compared to the selling price in your link. WOW!

http://www.electroluxgroup.com/en/electrolux-to-acquire-ge-appliances-19578/

 

[Shadrach]

The oil filter on the 2013 Journey is real easy to change. You access it from up top and it is a cartridge.

I get what you mean about quality parts for older vehicles.

David