Violence Never Solves Anything ........

[Jumbo Jet]

... . at least that is what some of the liberals from Berkeley try to tell us.



Violence sure did STOP the Nazis from taking over the world.



Violence stopped the Japanese agression in the Pacific.



Violence appropriately applied can stop a terrorist.



Pacifism can't stop a tank or an army - see Tianemin Square.



Pacifists can stop a bullet, or two, or three... ... ... ...



Pacifists can make me think about other benefits of violence!

 

[Crazy Horse]

A Message To Turncoats:



I believe if some of these people don't want to stand up and defend this country and everything it stands for they shouldn't be able to live in this country to begin with and enjoy the freedoms we have. I think if they flee to another country to elude defending American freedoms they should NEVER be able to enjoy these freedoms. If they turncoat let them stay where ever they flee to, be labeled cowards, and never be able to return.

 

[DRR-24V]

Hanoi Jane's comments on an Atlanta radio talk show showed most people how her IQ level was right at plant life. She wants to understand why these people hate us? Give me a break ! Every time I am feeling down, I think what it would be like to be Married to Jane or Hillary. Now THAT IS SUFFERING.

 

[Max340]

1) This country was founded on the belief that everyone had a right to their opinion and beliefs. Those of you who condemn others beliefs are yourselves violating one of the basic tenents on which this country was founded. I too, do not agree with running to the borders etc. But this does NOT mean that others cannot disagree with me or we should throw them out if they do.



2) Violence does NOT solve this problem facing us. Sure, it HELPS, but lets look at this as a whole.



a) We kill Bin Laden. Violence. Another crops up. Problem not solved.



b) We bomb Afganistan back into the stone age. They begin rebuilding, using money and support from other sources, arming themselves with new resolve to kill the american *******s. Problem not solved.



Violence is a tool, but solutions come with knowledge and action. If you are fixing your truck, do the tools alone assure a solution? Or do you need knowledge (Service manual), a plan (diagnostics) and a well executed use of the tools? Are all of your tools hammers? Or torches?



Many of you are as guilty of not thinking this through as some of the liberal peacenik types you complain about.



Violence has a time and place, but it is NOT a solution.



Not using violence has a time and place, but it is NOT a solution.

 

[dmurdock]

turn to history for the answers

I think most of these people have been hunted out so this story (the 9/11/01 tragedy) can be kept up top in programming with a new twist. I've seen one show that was a "town meeting" full of people who were against violence... when asked what we should do, there were no real answers, just "don't use violence to solve the problem".



Unfortunately, the majority of the population hasn't taken the time to educate themselves about the situation, and the majority of the media isn't helping. I've even heard reporters say "the US trained bin-laden when he was fighting the Soviets"... which, for anyone who knows the history of that region understands that this just isn't the case...



A "peaceful" approach to a problem will only work if the person or thing you are trying to work with would accept a "peaceful" solution. Unfortunately, the terrorists minimum demands are far from the maximum we are willing to give, thus the time for words, at least for now, is over.



You can accept it or deny it, man is a violent animal, always has been and always will be. As far back as human history has been kept, violence is a part of the equation. We may think we are more "civilized", but we are not. More advanced? Yes. Civilized? No.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

The point I was trying to make is understood by those who have a grasp of reality.



When the fires in the West get out of control, the fire fighters sometimes fight back with even more fire!



This is the situation we are in now. We have several million hungry people being led by a group of extremists promising them an eternity filled with splendor beyond their imaginations. Not even to mention 70 virgins. A dozen virgins today would be beyond my imagination.



The time to address the situation with the proper tools, American fire power, and the appropriate manuals, Fire Directional Control, is NOW!



I am not a violent person. But, I do think the US has too many people in it that have never had their butt kicked by someone else. A little humiliation by someone bigger, quicker, or smarter helps to build character. That is one thing participation in athletics can teach. This BS about playing where everyone is a winner is part of today's problem. Shoot, when I was a kid about 45 years ago, you were either a winner or a loser. And you better congratulate the real winners at the end of the contest!

 

[Sled Puller]

MAX, I get your point!



We have to kill ALL of them, and leave nothing to rebiuld. I can live with that.



Gene

 

[Bigsaint]

I think all the young Pacifists that flee to Canada should be rounded up and brought to P. I. for a stint in the pork chop platoon, what do ya think, nps ? Does the Corps. still have a PCP in recruit training ?



Scott W.

Semper FI

 

[rich m]

...All we are saaaaaaaaa-ying....is give peace a chance.....

... Guess what, repetitive chanters?

Peace has a chance for a little while every day. Then bin Laden, Hussein, and their evil minion wake up, and it's chance is blown for another 18 or 19 hours, bare minimum... . Now if B*****ds like that never wake up... . Notice I didn't say "if those 2 don't wake up" I said, If those LIKE them never wake up. That takes their replacements into account.



Then, happy chanters, Peace will have its chance.



The road to peace leads THROUGH its enemies, not around them. Pull yer head out, and join the fight to "give peace a chance"



If one is a sworn enemy to peace, he'll never change, until he "assumes room temperature". Sorry. That's the facts. You don't have to like it. You don't have to accept it. Just don't interfere with the realists.



As for Hanoi Jane, why'd she ever come back anyway?

 

[Max340]

Originally posted by nps

dmurdock,



Very articulate. I was simply going to tell Max to get his head out of the sand.

Yeah, ok, lemme get this straight.....



As a trained soldier/serviceman in the military, was it your job to wage war no matter what, OR was it your job to provide a presence and act as a tool to the political objectives of the country?



For those of you who MISSED all the OTHER stuff, even if you simply kill the perpetrators, there are other things that MUST be solved. Let me follow your endorsement of violence a bit.....



Are you planning to bomb the banks where the terrorists have their funds deposited? Will you also destroy, with armed force, Wall Street and any other marketplace where funding is invested?



Will you then annihilate any country that has radicals who help fund the terrorists?



How about this, lets bomb the crap out of any country that doesn't help out in this effort, even if say, they only have the Swiss Guard as a national force?



And to get other countries to help out, lets abduct their representitives at the airport, drive them in a van to the basement of the State Department and hold a gun to their head to convince them to play along.



Now, for those of you who simply dont get it, let me repeat:



Violence is a TOOL that must be used along with other TOOLS, such as negotiation, financial seizure, boycotts, embargoes, blockades, etc. Simply carpet bombing Afganistan is NOT a solution.



Jumbo, I got your point. To use your example, I hardly think that the ONLY thing used to fight fires is fire; Fire is simply ONE of the TOOLS used. And contrary to your blanket statement, not all Afgan nationals agree with the Taliban or bin Laden. Kill those others, and we end up with an even bigger mess.



Gene, we certainly MUST kill all of them, but if we allow collateral damage to get out of hand, we start other problems. If we do not make an effort to financially starve them, their followers will continue where they left off. We not only must stop the business of terrorism, we must make it clear that getting into the business will be harder. To do this, we need to use more tools than just that called violence.



Rich, it is sad that you don't see the full effort that must be made to bring those individuals to room temperature. That full effort is NOT simply violence.



Now, all of you need to go back and read what I said, because it CERTAINLY did NOT condemn violence used PROPERLY. Personally, I think it would be interesting to see all of you use violence to solve the problems with your trucks. Maybe then, you would see my point.

 

[Champane Flight]

Never

We all can have our own opinion about how this can be done. However the fact remains something MUST be done. I think(I do that every once in awhile)that this is going to be somthing different than we have ever done before. What we should do is support the Northern Alliance,give them air cover and a few weapons. Once they have the country in hand,we then can go in and take all the rats out. Keep a military presence there afterwards(instead of turning our backs and letting it get out of hand again)and (yes here we go again)help them rebuild there country to where at least everyone is fed. We have to fight the mindset of "Americans are a bunch of arrogant millionares with no feeling for the little guy"mentality. These peoples have been brainwashed.



Most of all we have to keep a solid mindset to complete the task!!!!!!!

 

[Jumbo Jet]

MAX340 Yes, I have had to use VIOLENCE on my truck. Just getting the oil filter off the first time required violence. The oil filter was violated. I have since apologized to my truck.



I gave peace a chance. I started out treating the oil filter like I had treated hundreds of other oil filters I had removed. I even started out using the same tools I had used with the other oil filters. My 31 year old filter wrench is now a pretzel. I had to result to different tools with a different amount of force.



I am not saying the millions of Afghans should all be killed. It's just sad that the only hope they have today stems from a terrorist. Maybe we change that. Maybe not.



I read an article about boy's schools in Pakistan. These are schools that train twelve year old boys to hate America. What will our future be from these warped brain washed young men?????????

 

[illflem]

Max, I must say your posts are some of the few here that make any sense at all, I am behind you 100% and would have written much the same things but you did it for me. I'm extremely happy that GWB is running the show, if it was a person with views such as nps the entire planet would be a nuclear disaster by Xmas. I feel he's the one with his head in the sand. Why don't we bomb Chicago flat to get rid of the Mafia?

 

[BK]

Ever wonder why the Russians dont have such a problem with their embassies getting bombed or as our past, taken hostage.



I read on another board..... not sure of accuracy. . but interesting non the less... .



The 1st time it was done, the "KBG" (?) went and found the families of the terrorists. . killed a few of them, brought the dead bodies to the correct place, and a message was sent that this will continue and happen as long as the hostages are kept, and if it ever happens again, expect more dead bodies from the terrorists' families.....



Thats why carpet bombing wont work.

Not close to home enough and it's not fighting on the level they understand.



Back to what I've said before, this is a real dirty street fight, not a boxing match. If we treat it as a boxing match, they'll kick our butts.



Bob

 

[JAK]

Am I the only one who's read everything Max340 said? nps: yes, many of the examples are absurd. That's the point. We aren't going to blow up the banks where terrorist organizations keep their money. But we certainly can't ignore them. Other actions are necessary. Yes, violence will be very important in the months to come, but we need to throw EVERY resource at the problem (including a good ole fashioned a** whooping)



Let me make myself very clear. We have one objective: To defend America and Americans. Period. That means to destroy ALL of those who would cause us harm. But it also means disassembling the whole system that recruits, trains and funds these animals. Some of those steps will be violent, some will not.



Jumbo Jet: Was your objective simply to remove the oil filter? If so then violence solved your problem completely. I have to think that your objective was more than removing the old filter. Most of us remove the old one with the intent of putting a new one on. I'm sure you used non violent methods to install the new one. The point is that the violence only achieved part of the objective (changing the filter). Just imagine the consequences of foregoing all of the non violent steps involved in that filter change. Another point about this analogy: I'm sure you employed a judicious use of force. You destroyed only that which needed destroying. You didn't haul out the sawsall and cut the whole filter bracket off the side of the engine (which would have removed the old filter through excessive force)



I think the total point Max made is that we cannot expect fantastic results if we only use the forceful parts of our arsenal. Influence must be wielded heavily in every way, shape and form possible. Stay focused on the objective and use every tool to accomplish the objective.

The 1st time it was done, the "KBG" (?) went and found the families of the terrorists. . killed a few of them,

If this level of violence works towards achieving our objective above then let the hunting begin.

 

[Big MAK]

Max and Others of that ilk: If you don't think freedom is worth defending; why are you here? It's morally and intellectually bankrupt to cite your reliance on 'freedom of speech' and the right say whatever you want when you are unwilling to defend that right. The same reasoning says people who don't care enough to vote don't have a right to gripe about whoever's in office.



Now; I know you'll launch into a lengthy tirade about your rights as an American... see paragraph one. You don't deserve those rights since you're unwilling to earn them. Thanks to people like Chad, nps, and myself you got 'em anyways. And that gives us the right to recognize liberal pacifists as boils on the butt of a free society. Your Welcome.





Semper Fi

 

[BK]

I should have also said, read between the lines. .



Our government admitted it will review the past and see what was "effective" in dealing and ending the terrorist activites.



Our government said that we "may" not hear of all the "missions" and whether or not they were successfull and or what they were about.



We will probably only hear that we have succeded in securing our freedom and in "securing" or "neutralizing" the threat.



I think we were too soft, for too long, time to take the gloves off, and if some were to know the truth..... they may not be happy... but would they rather not be offended by what may have happened? Or would they rather take a plane trip with a plane loaded with suspected terrorists?



I'm all for taking lesson from the KGB and such.



I'm sure with the profiling that's going on now, some very innocent people are going to get their feelings hurt.

You know what , - tough @#$@ -, if you don't like it get out.

There was already one middle eastern looking guy crying on TV last night that he got kicked off a plane. If he doesn't understand and doesn't want to help, GET OUT!!!

I've lost shaving cream cans and such to the security inspectors. . GREAT, I give them up with out a problem. I left the country with a case full of my "tools" & "parts" for my trade. I tried to get back into the country and when they "saw" my "box of tools-parts", they wouldnt let me board with my "box". . I didn't throw a fit, but did find that I had three choices through talking nicely. .

1 - not go at all

2 - "UPS" the box and catch a later flight

3 - The pilot was real nice , spoke to me, looked through my "box" he knew about the things in the box and said if he could himself secure the box he would let me and the box get on. .



I was happy to see such security measures in place and working. I've since learned to UPS such items ahead of me. If this is what it takes to be safe, I'm all for it.



It's a different world now, it's not going to be all warm, fuzzy and cozzy any more.

 

[DRR-24V]

MARK, BK and NPS, Well said

 

[Max340]

Originally posted by nps

Max,



I lied. I really meant get your head out of your a$$. Obviously you don't know what the military mission is given your watching from the sidelines (or maybe even points north eh?).



Semper Fi

Given that you obviously don't follow what every other military man I know has said, nor do you realize that the best of our military end up in positions requiring more than simply using the military to mow down the adversary, its clear to me YOU are the one who missed the mission of this nations military.



Every guy I know that has served, to a man, says that he is there to do a job when called upon, and that he hopes it does NOT go to where he has to fight.



Colin Powell, arguably one of the best Generals in history, is now in a position that he could easily abandon if he felt that military force was the first, best, and only option. Yet despite what you claim is the mission of our armed forces, he has not stepped aside and let them run rampant.



I wish it were as easy as living "points up north", then perhaps some of my friends wouldn't have been working in NYC at the time and been eyewitnesses to the WTC destruction. Thankfully, none of them was working IN the WTC that week.

 

[Max340]

Re: Never

Originally posted by Champane Flight

We all can have our own opinion about how this can be done. However the fact remains something MUST be done.





(snipped)



We have to fight the mindset of "Americans are a bunch of arrogant millionares with no feeling for the little guy"mentality. These peoples have been brainwashed.



Most of all we have to keep a solid mindset to complete the task!!!!!!!

CF, you are on the money.