Violence Never Solves Anything ........

[Max340]

Chad, I agree, when a person is actually getting shot at, its is a step beyond the normal. Lots of people put their lives on the line for their country in many ways, not just the military. Further, there are those that actually go beyond the call of duty and get hurt, and even die for the ideals of this country. THOSE are the heros and the people I feel can speak out from experience. And most of them will simply say, "I was just doing my job".



I agree with the flag burning permission.



John, yeah, you did miss my point, because you almost exactly repeat what I said were my friends attitudes when describing your own. If you got my point, you would realize that I agree with how you felt, because you would have read it in my post, instead of saying the previous words from Lins had fallen on "deaf ears" and that the things I "alluded to were never things that crossed" your mind. I went on to say that they held other commitments in as high a regard. Perhaps something about always doing the very best one can do is the way they live their lives.

 

[BK]

Just my $. 02 from my point of view,

I've spent many a years working on military electronic hardware, lots of volts and amps and have gotten knocked on my kester... could have been killed... but thats my own fault for not watching what I was doing.

I've worked on a black project with certain "incased" materials that when the "seal" was "broken" I had to get tested for exposure. Again the one time it happened, it was my mistake.



I always took pride in not comprimising a design due to program management push to shortcut or save $$'s. Getting it done right was always my goal. Had a lot of late nights that I could have just gone home, but schedules needed to be meet to field hardware for certain "reasons"... so I put the time in. All those late nights let me think about the "user"... GI Joe or Jane... that were going to depend on it.



I signed up for selective service when I came of age.

Never got called. Wanted to become a cop. . looking back now I wish I followed through with it. . I was dating my wife than and she said she didnt want to marry a cop... . so I stayed with electronics.



But while I took a bunch of AMERICAN pride in my work and I've gotten hurt... it can't compare to coming under fire, staying at a post while defending or attacking. Or running into a raging fire... .

I know there are a ton of very hazardous jobs out there. But as with mine, we can take the time to be carefull, or we can rush around and take short cuts while disregarding our safety..... our choice in such jobs.

I think thats a bit different than running into the WTC towers while everyone else is running out... or flying in as the 1st one in a WW F4, low and hot into an enemy's airdefense system to take it out to make way for the bombers.....



I'm not looking to take sides in this thread about this point.



Flame if you want, dont care... this is just my HO.



Bob

 

[Champane Flight]

Don't know

I don't know ,but it seems that they have taken the war to us. We have a serious responsibility to keep vigilant and to protect ourselves and others right now. We can all be heros by doing our best not to let fear into our daily lives. We also have a responsibility to our armed forces to keep there homes warm and safe for their return,that is what they really want. You see I know that their biggest wish and desire is to come home safe. I certainly hope this war is the last I and my children,and my grandchildren will have to see... ... .....

 

[Bill Lins]

Max- you still don't get it.



As to EMT's, here in Texas they are a part of the fire service and are thereby included.



As to the other occupations, there is a great difference between getting hurt or killed due to a screwup, either by one's self or by another, and INTENTIONALLY AND KNOWING putting one's self in danger IN ORDER TO PROTECT ONE'S FELLOW MAN.



I've been a Marine, a police officer, a sheriff's deputy, a state narcotics investigator, and now I own a glass company. I am in danger of being killed on almost any glazing job I perform, but unless I throw myself into a piece of glass IN ORDER TO SAVE SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE, I am merely doing my job.



Yes, farming is dangerous, but unless the farmer dies trying to save others from a marauding crop bent on slaughtering innocent civilians, in my book he is NOT a hero.



As to your statement about who is more deserving, my Gunnery Sergeant, Wally Juarez, lost part of his guts and arm after falling on a grenade to protect the Marines around him. I never knew him to consider himself a hero. Neither did anyone else I served with in the service or law enforcement consider themselves heroes.

 

[John Berger]

Of course I missed your point Max. I always do, remember. It must be because I can't read.

 

[Max340]

No Bill, you still don't get it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; simply training to defend the country and actually being called to face enemy fire are two very different things. As such, those that simply serve in the military are average guys doing their jobs. Those that get deployed in the field, face the threat if imminent death by something other than their own making or mistake, THAT is a hero. There, now I've said it again.



Your statement regarding the actions of people you served with is exactly what I said of those I know. So if I don't get it, why is it you are saying the same thing I did?

 

[Bill Lins]

Originally posted by Max340

simply training to defend the country and actually being called to face enemy fire are two very different things.

Wrong, Max. I'll give you an example. My nephew went to MCRD @ the end of June. Neither he nor anyone else on our side had any idea that we would be at war by now. However, he volunteered KNOWING that he could be deployed at any time. He may not ever have to take fire (and I pray that he won't) but he made the choice to put his life, if necessary, between our enemies and ourselves. In my book that makes him a hero, whether you agree or not.

 

[Papa Joe]

Speaking of walnuts... ... ... Grandpa said the hardest nuts to crack usually ain't worth it cause the nutrition intended for the meat went into the shell and there ain't nothin' inside anyways.

 

[jthorpe]

I served in the Military for 8 years. Does that make me a hero? No. I was an air traffic controller. I did nothing but bring in planes all day. A noble profession in my mind, but nothing heroic.



I have another question. According to the logic of many on here, joining the military automatically makes you a hero. I would disagree. A guy I worked with went to jail for raping a girl he had a date with, and is probably still in. Does that make him a hero just because he is in the military? No. In my experience, for every great military member, there were two who were ok or weren't great. Are they heros? No.



Is someone who goes into battle and wusses out in a foxhole a hero? No. What about those who have turned on their own. Are they heros? No.



Granted, this kind of stuff is in the minority and I have more respect for our military than you could ever imagine, especially since I was also an active member of our armed forces. However, just joining, knowing you may someday go into battle, does not make you a hero IMO.

 

[John Berger]

We know that Jack...

and that's why I, for one have been arguing with you and Max. We don't need you to tell us. You took the oath and that speaks for itself. I believe that most people probably thought as you did at the time they enlisted. It's what they did with whatever adversity that was thrown their way that makes them heroes or cowards. You overstate the obvious and I apologize if this seems like I'm attacking you. We all know these things. They are self-evident.

 

[Chad Sheets]

Walnuts. You learn something new every day. I'll have to remember that little story.

 

[Papa Joe]

Also said a man never stumbles over mountains, only molehills... ... ... ...

 

[Crash_AF]

Heros

Heros are not just the military people... they are also the people who work behind the

scenes both at home and abroad. A hero is a person that goes beyond the norms for

what they believe in. EMT's, cops, firemen, Boy scouts, Search and Rescue, Red Cross, ect.

Everyone has a job to do to keep everything running smoothly, but those who chose to

go the extra mile are heros. Hell, Just having you guys extend the hands of friendship

and support during this difficult time make you all heros in my book. I brag to other

people just how great you all are and it makes them feel better about the world.



Sherry Hinson