Vortec V8 vs. Dodge Cummins HO

[ELongfellow]

I'm currently in the market for a new truck and have been looking at the 02 Chevy Avalanches. A friend of mine recommended I look at the new 04 2500 Ram with the HO Cummins Engine. What a ride! Smooth, Quiet, and powerful. Not quite as much room in the back (Quad Cab) as the Av but it was enough.



My concern with the Vortec is not power but MPG. 4x4 gets about 14 city, 17 Hwy. My understanding is that the Cummins will get about 18 city and well over 20 Hwy. Have any of you Cummins owners found MPG to be this good under regular driving conditions. I am really torn as to which one to buy. I don't tow a lot of things and drive about 350 - 400 miles per week - about 1/2 of it Hwy miles.



In your experience - especially former Chevy V8 owners - is it worth it for me to get a heavy duty truck like this for the new Cummins engine.



I also hardly ever use 4x4 but have convinced myself that I'll need it one day. Is it worth having or does it just take away from MPG and add to maintenance issues.

 

[Tony T.]

My 03 SO/250 HP, auto, 4x4 I usually see 16 to 17 mpg with mixed driving. Now more so, more city I'll see 14. 5 to 15 mpg. I have not yet put it on a interstate and say just drive a constant speed to figure that type of mileage. I did take it out once, one of those Sunday drives and checked mileage part interstate an part US hwy drive though small towns and stop lights an such, and returned to to same filling station and same pump to calculate 18. 8 mpg. This was when truck had around 7 or 8 thousand miles on it. Some may claim better mileage an some claim worse mileage. At the time I bought mine I missed getting the HO with the auto by two weeks. I have been very satisfied with the truck I bought any way. As far as 4x4 goes I don't use it that often, but it's there when I need it. I been driving 4x4's since 1984 and never had any major problems with them. I was really sold on the longevity of the Cummins engine, average overhaul at 350,000 miles but can see a longer mileage future with good regular maintenance. Hope this might help some, an Good Luck with what ever you decide on.

 

[EMD-Run8]

I just bought an '04 4x2 quad cab with HO cummins and 6-speed. The clutch is very light and I like to shift gears. In reality you only need the top 4 in regular driving. Fuel mileage is a hands down win for the cummins, especially after you get it broken in real good. The torque of the cummins works excellent in real world everyday driving. The 4 wheel drive system I think is more robust on the dodge. I argued with myself a good bit about 4x4 but decided to go 4x2 instead. Either setup would be excellent. Hey, we're all biased toward the dodge/cummins here! I think you'd love it!

 

[JNutter]

There is a clown in my 4x4 club who bought a 3/4 ton Chevy to pull his Jeep and trailer. Typical story, afraid of diesels and die hard Chevy owner. He got the 6. 0 Vortec. He was bragging about his junk and about how he thought he'd keep up with the diesels becuase he has 300 horse power. I tried to explain the difference between 300 horse power with torque 380 ft lbs of torque at high rpm and 300 horse power with 500 ft lbs of torque at a lower rpm, but he would have none of it.



After a day of fourwheeling he followed me out of the parking place to try to prove his point. I was in my old '94 F250 with the pre-powerstroke 7. 3. It had been warmed up slightly, just a bit less power than my Dodge with the H. O. Cummins.



Anyways, I was igoring him but he kept right up with me, even on the hills... by downshifting to second gear (I found out later) and spinning his motor at about 5000 rpm (75 mph, whatever that works out to for a Chevy gasser in 2nd). I never dropped out of overdrive. How long do you think that Chevy gas engine is going to last pulling a load up a hill at 5000 rpm?



Then there's that soccer mom friendly IFS on the Chevy 4x4s. It's got about 3x the moving parts to wear out when compared to the solid axle on a Ford or Dodge 4x4.



You posted on a Dodge diesel forum. There's a reason why we bought these trucks. If those cheaper trucks could do what a Cummins powered Dodge does, we wouldn't have all spent the extra money.



By the way, I get 14mpg towing a CJ7 on a trailer behind my Dodge at 75 mph and my engine isn't even broken in yet. I get 20 mpg on empty freeway cruises.

 

[jungledave]

Nothing personal but the chevy Avalanch is so darned ugly it looks like it was hit with an avalanch. I would be really surprised if the 6. o gasser gets anything over 12 in the city and around 15 on the highway. It will get even worse if you are hauling. Just think about the power of the cunnins and how many times you don't have to do tune-ups. Is there a 100,000 mile waranty on that chevy motor? Is there a 70,000 drivetrain warranty?

 

[GFoley]

With an approx 50% better mileage rating in the diesel than a gas engine it takes a lot of miles to pay back the price of the optional engine. If you're gonna keep the next truck forever, then go Dodge, diesel. Anything less and you're not making a cost effective decision. I figured it took 100,000 miles for me to recoup the cost of the engine option in fuel mileage savings. I run a lot of miles for a daily driver and didn't tow when I bought mine. I towed for a while but not any more, like I said, daily driver. I think I would be in the poor house if I has a gas engine like a 5. 9 hemi, 8. 0 Vortec or 460 Ford.

FWIW, you can also get the Avalanche in a 2500 version last time I looked at the Chevrolet site.

 

[wxman]

As for mileage, my '03 HO 4X4 has achieved nearly 22 mpg since new (8 months and ~15K miles ago), and that includes my daily commute to work (~18 miles round trip).

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by GFoley

With an approx 50% better mileage rating in the diesel than a gas engine it takes a lot of miles to pay back the price of the optional engine. If you're gonna keep the next truck forever, then go Dodge, diesel. Anything less and you're not making a cost effective decision. I

Even if you don't keep it forever, the diesel is always a better cost decision. The resale value of the truck with the diesel will be much much higher than a gas engine job. Just try to find a 5 year old used CTD that doesn't cost so much that you might as well buy new. And the older they get, the more they're worth compared to gas.

 

[rwitt]

I had a 96 K3500 with the vortec 454 and averaged 11 -12 hiway and about 7 - 8 towing 7K. My 02 Dodge consistently gets 18 - 18. 5 normal driving and I've gotten as high as 20. 5. Towing the same load I average 14 -15mpg. I don't know if that Avalanche you were looking at had the 6. 0 or the 8. 1 but I wouldn't count on getting the mileage you posted earlier. My parents have a 99 Chevy with the 6. 0 and the best they've ever gotten with it is 14mpg.

Rich

 

[Forrest Nearing]

there's really no comparison here... like comparing apples to elephants...



the Cummins is the way to go!!!



Forrest

 

[Hillbilly Hotrodder]

Kid at my fire station has a GM 6. 0. He gets 11 mpg so he drives his Grandma's Cadillac because he can't afford the gas. He's waiting for his negative equity on the Chevy to subside enough to be able to get a diesel. That was a 37k dollar mistake on his part.



By the diesel.

 

[Steve M]

I get about the same as Tony in city driving. On the road with cruise set at 70mph, I get 19mpg. If I run 55mph(yawn) I get 23mpg. Towing our 10,400 lb 5th wheel 65-70mph gives us 10-12mpg. Horse power(the rate at which torque is applied) moves the load. With the Cummins having it's peak torque down low, it also moves the hp down low. My standard output Cummins makes as much HP at 2100rpm as the Hemi at 3,000rpm. The HO makes as much HP at 2100rpm as the Hemi at 3,700rpm. The GM 6. 0 is fairly comparable to the Hemi. You can imagine the 6. 0 will use alot more fuel to do the work of the Cummins. But if you don't need the high torque of the Cummins, the 6. 0 is a strong gas engine and will get the job done. Running empty or light load, the diesel is more of a novelty than a necessity. Most of us almost literally throw money at our trucks. We love them. We don't save money by buying a $35-50,000 truck and then buy aftermarket everything we can get. So for me, it's not a savings at all even if it does get somewhat better mileage than the Hemi. It's a very expensive novelty. I'd like to have a GM 2500HD with a 496/Allison in it before I die. I sure as heck don't need it. But it would be a neat novelty while I had it. Just my honest opinion about it. My opinion of the Avalanche... Well, if you like 'em, go for it. We only ride this ball one time and then it's over...

 

[dnitzel]

I've always wondered how long the window seal in the back of the Avalanche would hold up. Gas mileage is determined two ways in my book, "calculated" average by the tank and by the "overhead" mileage readout. I have found the overhead to be fairly close to the calculated average IF it's not reset frequently.



On my truck, I average 14. 5 in town/highway mileage, calculated value by dividing the number of miles driven since the previous fill up divided by gallons in the tank, after two clicks after the pump shuts off. My best calculated mileage is 19. 5 at 60 mph. The worst calculated was 11 mph pulling my camper trailer at 78 mph.



On the overhead, I've seen 24 mpg at 60-65 mph on pretty flat ground. 19 mpg at 78 mph. My average overhead in town/highway is usually around 14 mpg.



May people argue that the price of the diesel does not justify the cost over the gas engine. I do not feel that way. In this area, the resale value of the diesels make up the difference. I paid $29,500 in July 2000 for my 2001 2500 quad cab 5 spd. Dodge diesel. One year ago, Feb 2003 I traded it in with 46,000 miles for $24,000. The dealer sold it for $26,000. I don't think a gas engine 2500 would hold the value like that, at least not here in Nebraska. I also bought my new Dodge for dealer cost as shown on www.kbb.com then minus the rebates. I wonder if the Avalanche will hold it's value as well.



Just for grins, try the tailgate test. Open and close the tailgates on the Chevy's and the Dodge.



Sorry, you came to the wrong place to ask what you should buy, a Dodge or Chevy? Most of us here are pretty biased toward the Dodges.

 

[ELongfellow]

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I'm new to diesel engines and needed some guidance. I'd probably be an idiot if I didn't get the Cummins. I guess now all I have to do is find the one I want and drive it home. Thanks for your help. I look forward to learning more about these trucks and engines.

 

[barkerdl]

Why Buy a Diesel?

The only justification I could find for buying a diesel powered truck was to PULL with. It would take a very large and very thirsty gas engine to produce the torque required to pull trailers at reasonable speeds and last a reasonable time - say 100K miles. Please don't make the mistake of comparing the pulling power of a small block fuel efficient gas engine to a diesel. Even with the differential in mileage as compared to a big-block gas engine, not many dirvers will break even on mileage alone, because we don't keep the truck that long. Resale value is a great plus, but perhaps not the determining factor. Since I decided to buy a diesel to pull my trailer, why not buy the best? Cummins of course!



If you're not planning to pull, perhaps you just like diesel engines - also a great reason to buy one.



Life is short and you need some vehicle to drive - choose the one you like and don't worry about what I think!







Dennis

 

[ELongfellow]

Just bought a new 2004 4x4 Quad Cab today with the Cummins 5. 9. What a truck. Thanks again for all of your help. The advice I got on this site helped me realize there was only one way to go.

 

[dnitzel]

CONGRATULATIONS!!! Oo.

 

[Pawpaw]

I've only had this truck, my first diesel of any sort, for a couple of weeks.



I bough it for longevity. I tend to keep vehicles until they're all used up. I got fed up with cars because they just don't last. I plan on keeping and driving this truck for 10 years and more, so I paid the "CTD premium" for something that would hold up.



With only 1700 miles on the odometer, I can say that driving it every day is just as much fun as that test drive was. I was (and still am) blown away by how civilized this beast is. It's smooth and easy enough that you can forget it's a diesel. Then there's that constand feeling of power-on-tap whenever you want it.



My two cents. I love this truck!!!

 

[Tony T.]

Originally posted by ELongfellow

Just bought a new 2004 4x4 Quad Cab today with the Cummins 5. 9. What a truck. Thanks again for all of your help. The advice I got on this site helped me realize there was only one way to go.

Congrats on the new ride! Be sure an stay tuned to the TDR because there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here that are more than willing to share there knowledge with you. It has been a well spent $35. 00 bucks (IMO). It is a learning process, and I don't care how smart you are, you can always learn something new.

 

[ACerf]

Mileage

I get pretty good mileage, I think for a 3500. Most of the time we are getting 14-17 around town and in the high teens on the highway. But most of the time when we are highway driving we are pulling the fiver. Than we are getting between 9-13. It depends on the lay of the land! The Vortec is nice, but GM has been having problem with the engine just stopping for no reason. I work for an RV dealer part time and we had one do that a couple of weeks ago. Light comes on the dash saying "Loss of Power"!

My wife had a customer in her office the other day that had a 03 Chevy Duramax. He told her that he was on his Third Engine! When she told him that we had a Cummins Dodge and no problems, he said I knew I should have gone with that one!

Oh well live and learn!