Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) VP-44 vs. P7100 Reliability

[Cummins360]

Hi quick question is a P7100 or a remanufactured VP-44 from like Industrial Injection with all new upgraded parts more reliable??? I love the P7100 but like the electronic capabilities of the 24 valve engines and I am consiering going to a 24 valve in the future. I dont want to start a war either lol.

-Travis

 

[onestackdram]

Ok i think i get your question. The p-pump will run FOREVER. But with the VP-44 ur right you can plug the toys in and then control them on the fly, and as long as your running a true pusher pump to ensure you keep fuel to the VP it should give you years of service.

 

[Duluth Diesel]

Stay with your 12 valve as long as you can! VP44 pumps are an expensive headache.

 

[VHolloway]

Add A Quart Of Marvel Mystery Oil To Every Fill Up Or Some Other Fuel Lube Power Service There Is A Bunch Out There But Keep That Lube In The Fuel The Vp44 Seem To Like It

Good Luck

 

[Cummins360]

Yea but My question still stands, Can a VP be as reliable as a P-7100??? If it is properly lubed and has constant fuel pressure and is rebuilt with all the latest and most durable parts??

 

[onestackdram]

especially with the ulta low sulfer fuel that is about all you can get ahold of in KC, you HAVE to keep a lubricant in the tank,

 

[onestackdram]

Yea but My question still stands, Can a VP be as reliable as a P-7100??? If it is properly lubed and has constant fuel pressure and is rebuilt with all the latest and most durable parts??

It could be, its just a matter of how close you pay attention to your truck and keep it maintained. You will have to spend alot more money on lubricants, and fuel filters. But yeah potentially it could last as long. But if your question is, can you just about forget about your engine, then you need to stay with the p-pump, you will just about always know it will run.

 

[Duluth Diesel]

If you run a lubricity additive and monitor fuel pressure constantly, you may be able to get good life from a VP44, but it is no promise. The P7100 was a bulletproof pump, but mechanical and no adjustable from the cab electronically. I'd say go up to a 2004 to 2006 Common Rail with the CP3. Or, get a 1998. 5 to 2002 VP truck and do a P7100 pump conversion, then you'll have the 24 valve engine with the P-pump. That's what I'd like to do with my '02.

 

[mhenon]

Somebody here mentioned that by time you get your 24 valve P-pumped, and done right, you could buy 3 or 4 VP44's. It cost me about $500 bucks to add filters, large fuel lines and frame mounted lift pump to upgrade the system. Don't know for sure if this will save the VP but we'll find out in a few years of use.

Mike

 

[DieselTim]

vp-p7100

Not to highjack this post but my conversion cost me about $1600. I bought a donor truck with a broken frame for $1000, the line kit for $460, and spent about $125 for the new seals and gaskets from Cummins. So, for me it was really cheaper than an HP vp-44. I will post more about it after I drive it for a while. I am thru with changing vp-44 pumps forever Oo.



Dieseltim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Not to highjack this post but my conversion cost me about $1600. I bought a donor truck with a broken frame for $1000, the line kit for $460, and spent about $125 for the new seals and gaskets from Cummins. So, for me it was really cheaper than an HP vp-44. I will post more about it after I drive it for a while. I am thru with changing vp-44 pumps forever Oo.



Dieseltim

Your case is hardly typical for the vast majority of owners - and that undoubtedly includes the starter of this thread...



CAN a VP-44 last as long as a P7100 in similar service? SURE, it CAN, but typically WON'T...



But as far as the reliability of current VP-44 revisions and upgrades are concerned, is a P700 swap REALLY as attractive and reasonable an alternative as a few here suggest? Rebuilders such as Industrial Injection will tell you that the current level of revisions incorporated into the Bosch authorized rebuilds is yielding very LOW failure rates as compared with previous OEM installed units - so odds of a SECOND, premature rebuilt VP-44 failure would seem far less likely.



I guess tthe remaining question is, once the "premature" qualifier is removed, what IS the "normal" lifespan of either a P7100 or VP-44?



My case might not be all that unusual - my VP-44 started tossing codes at about 45K miles - engine never missed a beat, but in our relatively remote area and in RV towing, it doesn't pay to take chances - so I installed my II rebuilt spare.



I sent the old VP in to II, requesting that only the failed parts be replaced, and all parts be returned to me. My pump had ALWAYS seen only Power Service additive and 2 stroke oil in the fuel, and fuel was VERY well filtered.



Turns out my pump was one using the brass internal advance cylinder liners that were notorious for premature failures in the pumps they were installed in. My pump had a new case installed using a steel liner as is the current upgrade revision - and virtually ALL other mechanical and electronic parts were in spec and reinstalled - that pump is now my spare, still essentially original other than the advance cylinder liner.



How long would it have lasted without that design flawed brass liner? Who knows. Did the fuel additives gain me any lifespan even with the flawed design? Who knows...



BUT, if the typical estimate of roughly 3 times the cost to swap in a P7100 to replace a VP-44 are true, and IF virtually EVERY VP-44 was similarly flawed to my original, I could operate my truck for about 12 more years and 130K more miles before I would gain anything significant by swapping to a P7100!



And that doesn't address the far greater flexibility provided by the VP-44, or the various side issues of a morphodited P7100 rig that might affect the basic value of such a truck for resale or trade-in - or decent troubleshooting by technicians who must try to untangle the affects of a Frankenstein patchwork in case of eventual and inevitable problems (nothing lasts forever!) that sideline the truck somewhere down a dark and lonely road.



Where WOULD you then take such a truck for help if you broke down on the road? A Dodge dealership? A Cummins shop? Either of those 2 would have NO issues with a stock truck - but would they even TOUCH a modified one? Would you trust them to?



Out on the road, we don't always even have a choice!



In retrospect and perspective, the rebuild of a VP-44 will cost about the same as a set of tires - and other comparisons apply - but guys fixated and paranoid over the VP-44 will gloss over the downside of a P7100 swap, and undoubtedly resist any logical attempts to dissuade them away from so radical a modification - and guys who have already jumped in will usually only focus upon the SINGLE benefit, no more VP-44 - and totally ignore or deny the less obvious downsides and potential hazards...



SO, dig out those tools, and swap away... :-laf :-laf

 

[MMoyle]

I had to reply to this thread... IMO - Here is the bottom line.



The 7100 can take some major abuse, run on crappy fuel, and when left alone with no care and feeding can last a very very long time. The 44 however, is delicate, requires monitoring, and cannot be left alone. I think a 44 can last as long as a 7100, but you will have to constantly monitor and feed it with care. The 7100 is so indestructible that my friends and I always say that you could put trash in the tank and the thing would still run ( a little exaggeration doesn't hurt anyone). If I had my choice for reliability I would go with the 7100. I wish I had one on my truck.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

MAN, wouldn't a computer controlled P7100 be sweet...