VP44 Belly up?

[BIG BOB]

I think my VP44 went belly up today! I came home from work with no problems, shut if off, came back out about 15 minutes later and it would not start. I've got 12+ lbs of fuel pressure. I will check out the electrical connections and crack a injector line tomorrow. Are the any fuses I should be looking at? Anyone have any ideas?



If it is bad, does anyone make a High Performance VP44 injection pump?

 

[SEmerson]

Their are several fuses related to the engine. There are many thing that could make it not start so I wouldn't panic about the vp44 yet. Get the codes out of it that will help alot. And yes there are many ho vp44's out there. I have seen them in a few ads. Alot of bread though.

 

[speedracer]

I can't be much help diagnosing the VP44. As far as a High Performance pump(assuming you mean a modified pump, not a oem H. O. model pump), I believe Diesel Dynamics is working on one. I don't know if they have it on the market yet, and I think it's supposed to be big $. But I'm sure others on this board will be much more up to date on that. Good Luck.

 

[Idaho Native]

BIG BOB,



I have the Cummins VP44 service manual... if you can get me the codes, I might be able to help you out. Although, in nearly every case, the book directs you to "replace the VP44 pump/control assembly" and send the bad one in for repair. Welcome to the world of electronics



Loren

 

[CCOLLAR]

There is a TSB entitled "cold weather, hard/no start" that might apply to your problem. Specifically, a warm engine no-start/hard-start condition might occur in cold weather. Check out Dave Fritz's website for more info:



http://dodgeram.org/



Craig

 

[BIG BOB]

I went out this morning and it started, but ran real rough. It missed when I stepped on the throttle. Must not be a fuse. I guess I will take in into Cummins NW.



Craig,

Thanks for the help, the TSB you referred to is for 2000-01. Mine is a 99.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by BIG BOB

I went out this morning and it started, but ran real rough. It missed when I stepped on the throttle. Must not be a fuse. I guess I will take in into Cummins NW

How strong are the batteries?

Have you tried unplugging the COMP?

 

[BIG BOB]

Kat,



Batteries are (were) in great condition. However, I am becoming worried about the starter. No problems with either at this time.



Here is the latest;

5 star dealer has truck, they have about 3 hours in diagnosing, without a firm answer. They now think it might be the ECM, but have to wait till Monday to get voltage numbers from Star Industries (Chrysler supplier of injection pumps).



Did you know that Chrysler will not let any dealers stock the injection pumps for the 24V. The dealer has to diagnose the problem and then forward the information on to Chrysler, then Chrysler will sent the injections pump! What a bunch of BULL! Not only that but they want $3,000 just for the pump! Can you say PIERS? I can and did! Piers is sending me a pump on Monday, if I don't use it, I'm only out the shipping.



Thought I might give you some of the symptoms,



Truck would not start, crack #1 injector line, cranked motor to prime the line, tightened injector line, truck would then start (but runs lousy), and would start again if tried right away, let it sit for 5 to 10 minutes, truck will not start, crack #1 injector and then you are back to the beginning of this paragraph, doing the same thing. I keep saying injection pump, the tech says no.



The tech called me and said that he put a ECM bypass on the injection pump and the truck runs fine and would start after 10 minutes of setting. Maybe the tech is right, maybe it's not the pump and is the ECM.



I am not real sure about the tech, being at first he told me my lift pump was bad, sucking air, and the check ball was letting the fuel drain back into the fuel tank, and that 7# of fuel pressure while at WOT was not enough fuel pressure. I asked him what it should be and he told me 12#. I then told him that factory specs. were 12# at an idle, and minimum was 5# at WOT, and that there was nothing wrong with the Lift pump. He was a bit surprised to see that I wasn't a amature with the Cummins (thanks to all of you!).

In order to satisfy himself he hooked up a clear hose from the fuel filter to the injection pump to see if any air was being pumped into the injection pump and then draining back into the fuel tank. I was right no air being pumped and no syphon back to the tank.



I am not Piers or Lawrence, but I sure don't feel at ease when I know more that the tech does. However, maybe he is right about the ECM, we'll see on Monday.



Thanks Piers for your tech support and great deal on the pump. Oh, by the way everyone, Piers is sending me a pump at a great price, just in case I need it! Thanks again Piers, you are the greatest!

 

[C1B1DIESEL]

probable what is happening is low voltage to vp. with his test box it is gettting proper voltage because he is hooked to the battery with it.

voltage is supplied to vp via a relay that put power to pin 7 of vp.

then it gets power from the ecm at pin 5 of vp that is fuel shut off.

the vp relay is dodge's and it can produce low voltage. causing hard starts. no starts. burps, boggs. and hiccups. caused by corroded contacts or a weak relay.

 

[HVAC]

Furthering what C1B1 said, the relay is in the relay box on the drivers side fender. I believe it's marked fuel system. It's easy to swap it for one of the other relays.



The relay is triggered by the ign switch I believe and power origionates at the fuse box. Look for the fuse marked "Engine".

 

[CCOLLAR]

I am dealing with a similar problem. My truck won't start after sitting for some time in air temp below 40F. I also get the Check Engine light with a code that reads "ECM cannot communicate with the FPCM. " I have to crank it 10-15 times (until the pump warms up?) to get the truck started .



After some trial and error, I discovered that by plugging in the block heater for about 2 hours before I leave in the morning, the truck runs fine, and continues to run fine for the remainder of the day.



After a few trips to various dealers in the area (one had the gaul to say I needed a new alternator! -- boy did the Service Manager catch hell for this), and leaving the truck over night to reproduce the problem, a tech diagnosed the problem as an internal short in the FPCM.



My thinking is that the internal fuel temp. sensor is causing the short. In any case, they are replacing the pump under warranty. We'll just see how this goes... .



I hope things go well for you on Monday Big Bob!



Craig

 

[bigbrassmonkey]

you may be sucking air somewher????





is there a cummins shop near you, warrantys are insignifigant at this point, you worry about that later, DC has minimal experience other than parts changing with this application

 

[BIG BOB]

YAHOOOOOO!



The "White Obsession" is home where it belongs! and running like a finely tuned Cummins!



It finally took the dealership to wire into the Chrylser diagnostic computer and have Chrysler run the test to determine that the injection pump was bad.



I have to say that I am pleased with Dishman Dodge in Spokane! They had 9 hours in diagnosing and R&R time and only charge me for 3 hours. This included R&R injection pump and intake manifold temperature sensor. I don't think they have had a lot of experience troubleshooting the injection pump. It took quite awhile but I'm happy. They treated me very well.



I must give a BIG THANKS TO PIERS for sending a injection pump right away and for the great price! Piers, you are the greatest! Piers, I must say there is one problem you live too far away, I would have perfered to have the White Obsession in your shop.

 

[CUMINNTSTRKN]

that's great news bob!!