I know that it's not easy but I want to convert my vp44 to a p-pump or should I just buy a 12-valve motor with the pump on it and swap it in place of my 24-valve motor? Does someone have a list of parts or a detailed step by step to perform this task? I have a stock p-pump already but what to do?
-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) VP44 TO P7100 Pump
- Thread starter pro99
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
- Status
really would like more info on this
Several of the major diesel shops do this.
I remember seeing a Scheid ad on it. I would bet: II does it, Piers does it, Scheid does it, and probably a handfull of others. I would want a shop that has done a bunch of them and have the swap process bugs worked out (that I was not the guinea pig).
I also think it comes with its own set of problems, but longevity is not one of them.
Bob Weis
I remember seeing a Scheid ad on it. I would bet: II does it, Piers does it, Scheid does it, and probably a handfull of others. I would want a shop that has done a bunch of them and have the swap process bugs worked out (that I was not the guinea pig).
I also think it comes with its own set of problems, but longevity is not one of them.
Bob Weis
Chaz, if you need a hand just let me know
if you are going to get rid of your VP let me know a price, i want to have a spare just in case
if you are going to get rid of your VP let me know a price, i want to have a spare just in case
yes but a p pump is reliable, and if you wanna play with rpm's you can get 7,000 out of the pump, your motor will just need some... "work"
P Pump Swap
For all those interested, I just put a p pump on my 01' 5 speed this last week. I ground a number 10 cam plate and slid it all the way forward as well as sliding the AFC housing all the way forward. I'm am extremely satisfied with the result, I pulled my 32 foot tandem flatbed trailer hauling a 4640 John Deere and it had no problems. As for exhaust temperature it does stay in the range very well until you pull say a 7% grade then you have to back out of it just a little but otherwise its not an issue. And I do have the factory turbo on it with only 4 inch straight piped exhauast. As far as parts go, I bought a complete 12 valve core motor for $500, and the injector lines and the cam shaft (to run the mechanical lift pump) from haisley machine for $850. You will also need an adapter that screws into the side of the pump in order to get the oil supply to the pump from the block. I think it was $15 from Scheid. I already had DD2 injectors in the pickup. Everyone tells me the engine will run much smoother with bigger injectors when you do this swap, and it does. I also put a 4000 rpm governor spring kit in the p pump. A word of caution on doing this is not to rev the motor past 3500 rpms unless you have heavy duty valve springs as you will have valve/piston contact. This applies to 12 and 24 valve engines. As for the tachometer, the 01. 5' pickups and later have the cam position sensor located on the timing case behind the injector pump. Earlier 24 valves have it around the starter on the flywheel, I think. I know the tach is not an issue on those trucks. This was the only hitch I ran into; however I have access to a CNC mill and so an adapter was made to keep the cam sensor in place on the 12 valve timing case that was used because the pump mount for the p pump is different from the vp-44. I will sell these to anyone interested as the pattern was saved. I used the 24 valve throttle mount (AP sensor I believe its called) with some modification and was able to retain the cruise control. I set the timing at 18 degrees as the concensus from local mechanics was that this would be the best for all around performance. So for all the detractors who are against doing this and say it is impossible to do, or would cost more than the truck, or will not be streetable, think again. Anyone with questions feel free to ask because I've got a pickup that turned out great with this swap. I live in Central Texas so anyone who would like to see it or drive it feel free to ask.
For all those interested, I just put a p pump on my 01' 5 speed this last week. I ground a number 10 cam plate and slid it all the way forward as well as sliding the AFC housing all the way forward. I'm am extremely satisfied with the result, I pulled my 32 foot tandem flatbed trailer hauling a 4640 John Deere and it had no problems. As for exhaust temperature it does stay in the range very well until you pull say a 7% grade then you have to back out of it just a little but otherwise its not an issue. And I do have the factory turbo on it with only 4 inch straight piped exhauast. As far as parts go, I bought a complete 12 valve core motor for $500, and the injector lines and the cam shaft (to run the mechanical lift pump) from haisley machine for $850. You will also need an adapter that screws into the side of the pump in order to get the oil supply to the pump from the block. I think it was $15 from Scheid. I already had DD2 injectors in the pickup. Everyone tells me the engine will run much smoother with bigger injectors when you do this swap, and it does. I also put a 4000 rpm governor spring kit in the p pump. A word of caution on doing this is not to rev the motor past 3500 rpms unless you have heavy duty valve springs as you will have valve/piston contact. This applies to 12 and 24 valve engines. As for the tachometer, the 01. 5' pickups and later have the cam position sensor located on the timing case behind the injector pump. Earlier 24 valves have it around the starter on the flywheel, I think. I know the tach is not an issue on those trucks. This was the only hitch I ran into; however I have access to a CNC mill and so an adapter was made to keep the cam sensor in place on the 12 valve timing case that was used because the pump mount for the p pump is different from the vp-44. I will sell these to anyone interested as the pattern was saved. I used the 24 valve throttle mount (AP sensor I believe its called) with some modification and was able to retain the cruise control. I set the timing at 18 degrees as the concensus from local mechanics was that this would be the best for all around performance. So for all the detractors who are against doing this and say it is impossible to do, or would cost more than the truck, or will not be streetable, think again. Anyone with questions feel free to ask because I've got a pickup that turned out great with this swap. I live in Central Texas so anyone who would like to see it or drive it feel free to ask.
That is AWESOME.
The key is the paterns to the modifications and the knowledge of what had to be done in each specific step in the modification. Writting it all down now that the change is complete would be a really good thing to do. Being able to SEE it before someone else did it always helps a whole lot.
What did you get off the core motor? the pump?
The injector lines and cam make sense. Eventhough I think I would keep the RASP pump. It seems really really stable and very reliable, and not do the cam changeout.
The adapter for oil lubrication for the pump from Scheid.
The 4000 rpm govenor spring kit for the pump.
The adapter for the 12v timing case for the tach
Adapting the APPS needs a little more explanation please
My take on this VP44 design malady -
If we can't find a reasonable fix that is permanent and you aren't worrying about the VP44 everytime you go more than 100 miles from home base then something like this needs to be done. I am trying the fuel cooling / shutdown cooling approach and will see if that works. Most times if a piece of equipment is run at reasonable operating temperatures and well lubricated, it will run for a very long time. However, if this approach fails then changing to a p pump is the only other viable option, unless someone else has better ideas.
Bob Weis
The key is the paterns to the modifications and the knowledge of what had to be done in each specific step in the modification. Writting it all down now that the change is complete would be a really good thing to do. Being able to SEE it before someone else did it always helps a whole lot.
What did you get off the core motor? the pump?
The injector lines and cam make sense. Eventhough I think I would keep the RASP pump. It seems really really stable and very reliable, and not do the cam changeout.
The adapter for oil lubrication for the pump from Scheid.
The 4000 rpm govenor spring kit for the pump.
The adapter for the 12v timing case for the tach
Adapting the APPS needs a little more explanation please
My take on this VP44 design malady -
If we can't find a reasonable fix that is permanent and you aren't worrying about the VP44 everytime you go more than 100 miles from home base then something like this needs to be done. I am trying the fuel cooling / shutdown cooling approach and will see if that works. Most times if a piece of equipment is run at reasonable operating temperatures and well lubricated, it will run for a very long time. However, if this approach fails then changing to a p pump is the only other viable option, unless someone else has better ideas.
Bob Weis
Last edited:
Scheids has a kit with everything but the pump. 1400 and some change. It is suposed to have every part but the pump needed for the swap and it really is a common swap in the midwest... . I have reserched this quite a bit and they should be shipping my kit by the end of next week, so unless your in a huge hurry I will let you know how it looks when I get the parts here.
I assume the Scheid's kits come by year, as there are minor differences year by year. I sure would like to hear how your conversion goes and any unforseen difficulities you have.
There must be threads on taking care of the P7100 pump. Things like keeping it properly functioning, adjusting springs?, piston travel? it probably has its own set of maintenance requirements, just not the same set of failure. I'll do some searching on P pump threads. Should be interesting reading.
Bob Weis
There must be threads on taking care of the P7100 pump. Things like keeping it properly functioning, adjusting springs?, piston travel? it probably has its own set of maintenance requirements, just not the same set of failure. I'll do some searching on P pump threads. Should be interesting reading.
Bob Weis
CCahill said:
Every one I asked inthe Phx area said it could not be done... . Ha. When I told them I had seen it done they just gave me the blank stare, obviously thinking I did not even know what a p pump looked like. I finally decided to do it myself even though i really do not have the time. If you feel like seeing the midwest Scheids told me they do the swap in their shop regularly, along with selling the kits. I really think the key to the swap may be having your injectors reset to pop at the presures made by your 7100.
If I can help in any way let me know. David
- Status
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
