Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) VP44 TO P7100 Pump

[EMD-Run8]

Something else I was thinking about was does the change to a P7100 change the way the motor sounds? Does it still clatter like a 24v or does it settle down some?

 

[JStaton]

For all those interested, I just put a p pump on my 01' 5 speed this last week. I ground a number 10 cam plate and slid it all the way forward as well as sliding the AFC housing all the way forward. I'm am extremely satisfied with the result, I pulled my 32 foot tandem flatbed trailer hauling a 4640 John Deere and it had no problems. As for exhaust temperature it does stay in the range very well until you pull say a 7% grade then you have to back out of it just a little but otherwise its not an issue. And I do have the factory turbo on it with only 4 inch straight piped exhauast. As far as parts go, I bought a complete 12 valve core motor for $500, and the injector lines and the cam shaft (to run the mechanical lift pump) from haisley machine for $850. You will also need an adapter that screws into the side of the pump in order to get the oil supply to the pump from the block. I think it was $15 from Scheid. I already had DD2 injectors in the pickup. Everyone tells me the engine will run much smoother with bigger injectors when you do this swap, and it does. I also put a 4000 rpm governor spring kit in the p pump. A word of caution on doing this is not to rev the motor past 3500 rpms unless you have heavy duty valve springs as you will have valve/piston contact. This applies to 12 and 24 valve engines. As for the tachometer, the 01. 5' pickups and later have the cam position sensor located on the timing case behind the injector pump. Earlier 24 valves have it around the starter on the flywheel, I think. I know the tach is not an issue on those trucks. This was the only hitch I ran into; however I have access to a CNC mill and so an adapter was made to keep the cam sensor in place on the 12 valve timing case that was used because the pump mount for the p pump is different from the vp-44. I will sell these to anyone interested as the pattern was saved. I used the 24 valve throttle mount (AP sensor I believe its called) with some modification and was able to retain the cruise control. I set the timing at 18 degrees as the concensus from local mechanics was that this would be the best for all around performance. So for all the detractors who are against doing this and say it is impossible to do, or would cost more than the truck, or will not be streetable, think again. Anyone with questions feel free to ask because I've got a pickup that turned out great with this swap. I live in Central Texas so anyone who would like to see it or drive it feel free to ask.

by the way I was smokin goats guinea pig I helped with most of the install on this truck I also have p-pumped my 2000 model and if you need i can get the adapter fabbed up for you we are in the process of getting a patent for this adapter. hey Brett if you see this message give me a hollar this weekend.



jake

 

[Silver Bullet Ram]

Will this work with an auto trans? Someone at Scheid said it would be difficult because of something to do with a tps. Is it still pricey to do this conversion? Last I heard and it has been awhile was like 8k.

 

[JStaton]

Will this work with an auto trans? Someone at Scheid said it would be difficult because of something to do with a tps. Is it still pricey to do this conversion? Last I heard and it has been awhile was like 8k.

Yes it will work on auto trans as long as you retain the factory apps like smokingoat01 did with his and your cruise and everything will still work.



jake

 

[JohnWheeler]

For all those interested, I just put a p pump on my 01' 5 speed this last week. I ground a number 10 cam plate and slid it all the way forward as well as sliding the AFC housing all the way forward. I'm am extremely satisfied with the result, I pulled my 32 foot tandem flatbed trailer hauling a 4640 John Deere and it had no problems. As for exhaust temperature it does stay in the range very well until you pull say a 7% grade then you have to back out of it just a little but otherwise its not an issue. And I do have the factory turbo on it with only 4 inch straight piped exhauast. As far as parts go, I bought a complete 12 valve core motor for $500, and the injector lines and the cam shaft (to run the mechanical lift pump) from haisley machine for $850. You will also need an adapter that screws into the side of the pump in order to get the oil supply to the pump from the block. I think it was $15 from Scheid. I already had DD2 injectors in the pickup. Everyone tells me the engine will run much smoother with bigger injectors when you do this swap, and it does. I also put a 4000 rpm governor spring kit in the p pump. A word of caution on doing this is not to rev the motor past 3500 rpms unless you have heavy duty valve springs as you will have valve/piston contact. This applies to 12 and 24 valve engines. As for the tachometer, the 01. 5' pickups and later have the cam position sensor located on the timing case behind the injector pump. Earlier 24 valves have it around the starter on the flywheel, I think. I know the tach is not an issue on those trucks. This was the only hitch I ran into; however I have access to a CNC mill and so an adapter was made to keep the cam sensor in place on the 12 valve timing case that was used because the pump mount for the p pump is different from the vp-44. I will sell these to anyone interested as the pattern was saved. I used the 24 valve throttle mount (AP sensor I believe its called) with some modification and was able to retain the cruise control. I set the timing at 18 degrees as the concensus from local mechanics was that this would be the best for all around performance. So for all the detractors who are against doing this and say it is impossible to do, or would cost more than the truck, or will not be streetable, think again. Anyone with questions feel free to ask because I've got a pickup that turned out great with this swap. I live in Central Texas so anyone who would like to see it or drive it feel free to ask.

I Would like to know where you got the engine core from?

 

[RKraft]

DLane

When you get the kit and do the install please post on it. I bought my old 97 12V back from insurance and the block was cracked, so I figured it would make for a good p-pump conversion on my 01 HO. Please let us know what is all included in the kit. And if you don't mind please post some pictures.

Thank you Randy

 

[zstroken]

Rkraft how is the charger and clutch??

 

[RKraft]

Hey Dan,

The charger is awesome the clutch is still sitting in the garage. I have been out of town allot for my job and no time. With the box on 5x5 and the Mach 4's the stock clutch just gives up if you get on it hard right away :-laf. I hope soon before winter to get it in. Where is a good place for the bigger pilot bearing I forgot the name of that company 4x4 something.



Randy

 

[zstroken]

I think it is quad 4x4,

 

[massdiesel]

cam sensor

I'd be curious to know how you could drive the tach and other instruments on say..... an '02 6 spd truck?

You have to machine a hole in the timing cover for a cam sensor and the tach and cruise will work and also for charging system

 

[J.R. Adkins]

You have to machine a hole in the timing cover for a cam sensor and the tach and cruise will work and also for charging system

Scott is right!



Just take and bolt both covers together for alignment and drill away!!





J. R.

 

[mhenon]

So what's the whole thing cost. . pump, parts, labor, to have the swap done?

Mike

 

[MD500E]

I have not done my truck, however I have been thinking about it for a while. A friend of mine has two 01' trucks both with p-pump conversions. One was done by Piers, and the other was Diesel Dynamics. If you use a fairly stock pump I think reliability is better than the vp-44, however if you heavily mod the pump then you are back at square one. I was with my friend 10 hours from home with a 10,000 trailer when the pump stuck a plunger. Good news is that it made it back home on 5 cylinders still pulling the trailer! I figured we still had a good 450 hp on 5 cylinders :-laf Other problem he ran into is after his other truck lost a valve it heavily damaged the head, piston and cylinder walls. This was not related to the conversion but instead of being able to easily swap in a used engine you are sort of forced to rebuild. With my luck my 53 block will wait to crack until the day after I finish the conversion on my truck. :-laf

 

[EMD-Run8]

I think I read on one of these threads that you can also swap a '96-'98 intrument cluster into the dash and use 12V parts for the instruments if you either don't have or don't want to use the ECM. Is that right? Just saw an '01 at a fuel stop this evenin' with a p7100 conversion. Not sure if the guy knew what he had. I was talking to the guy about it and he was looking at me like------HUH? Said he'd had it about six months.

 

[JohnWheeler]

For all those interested, I just put a p pump on my 01' 5 speed this last week. I ground a number 10 cam plate and slid it all the way forward as well as sliding the AFC housing all the way forward. I'm am extremely satisfied with the result, I pulled my 32 foot tandem flatbed trailer hauling a 4640 John Deere and it had no problems. As for exhaust temperature it does stay in the range very well until you pull say a 7% grade then you have to back out of it just a little but otherwise its not an issue. And I do have the factory turbo on it with only 4 inch straight piped exhauast. As far as parts go, I bought a complete 12 valve core motor for $500, and the injector lines and the cam shaft (to run the mechanical lift pump) from haisley machine for $850. You will also need an adapter that screws into the side of the pump in order to get the oil supply to the pump from the block. I think it was $15 from Scheid. I already had DD2 injectors in the pickup. Everyone tells me the engine will run much smoother with bigger injectors when you do this swap, and it does. I also put a 4000 rpm governor spring kit in the p pump. A word of caution on doing this is not to rev the motor past 3500 rpms unless you have heavy duty valve springs as you will have valve/piston contact. This applies to 12 and 24 valve engines. As for the tachometer, the 01. 5' pickups and later have the cam position sensor located on the timing case behind the injector pump. Earlier 24 valves have it around the starter on the flywheel, I think. I know the tach is not an issue on those trucks. This was the only hitch I ran into; however I have access to a CNC mill and so an adapter was made to keep the cam sensor in place on the 12 valve timing case that was used because the pump mount for the p pump is different from the vp-44. I will sell these to anyone interested as the pattern was saved. I used the 24 valve throttle mount (AP sensor I believe its called) with some modification and was able to retain the cruise control. I set the timing at 18 degrees as the concensus from local mechanics was that this would be the best for all around performance. So for all the detractors who are against doing this and say it is impossible to do, or would cost more than the truck, or will not be streetable, think again. Anyone with questions feel free to ask because I've got a pickup that turned out great with this swap. I live in Central Texas so anyone who would like to see it or drive it feel free to ask.

I would like to know where I can get an engine for $500 so I can do a P-pump swap,I also live in West central Texas ( Bronte) Please help me get rid of this &*%$#@ VP44!

Call Me Or E'Mail -- email address removed -- phone 3254732093

 

[DLane]

Done

OK, Took me much longer than desired to get started on this, the VP took a good long time to die, and been chasing injector issues in the 05 so this got ignored till the truck hitched a ride with a tow truck. P pump is in and makes this truck run better than new .

Scheids Kit has gone up a bit in the last year but still a good way to go unless you have a friendly Cummins parts man. You do need to have some minimal fabrication skills if your going to do this yourself. I relocated the ECM to the frame, not real happy with this spot though and am going to move it over where the lift pump used to be. I made the adaptor for the CPS from my old 24v cover. I "machined" it to fit the timing pin hole, CPS works perfect and the timing pins are not usually exact TDC anyway. Marked my damper for TDC. The factory filter "could be used if moved to the rear, I made my own dual filter setup. I reused my Vulcan Big Line kit but in place of the factory lift pump I used a Walbro. Vulcan has the AN fittings to fit the P pump. The oil line to the pump would not fit in the standard location on the inside of the pump so I used the outside. Put a fuel pressure regulator roughly where the factory filter housing was, capped the fuel return line at the T for the injector return and ran a additional return from the FPR to the tank. Mounted the APPS right on the throttle linkage where the TPS would be as this is basically its only job now anyway. Used the Throttle Cable, Throttle Valve Cable from a 98 12v and see no reason why the cruise could not be hooked up the same way. I did not and removed my cruise completely, never have used it and it always seems to be in my way under the hood. I believe you could run the same injectors you already have just pull em out and get the pop pressures set for the P pump. I think I touched on everything, if you have a stick and not a auto it would be easier as this was the most detailed bracket to build. On the APPS/TPS I may wind up going to a potentiometer as outlined in the 12v forums, as I never did like how this transmission shifted. COST: I have 2300. 00 in parts NEEDED to make the change over. I will get some picks on here when I get the wife to show me how.

 

[KLockliear]

A LOT of work. It's all been said before. Do a search.

 

[DLane]

A LOT of work. It's all been said before. Do a search.

I guess that really depends on what one considers "a lot" I would rather do this swap than than R/R/R the transmission/transcase.

And I do not think it has all been said before, I have searched, not just here but every diesel forum and it has been talked about yes but not much detail.

I found the info I was looking for in the F/S manual and Cummins Quickserve.

The one thing I have NEVER found anywhere is anyone that has actually done the swap wishing they had their vp44 back. One can put a "box" on their vp and get more power but you can not make it more reliable. Remember even the guys who say the "NEW" vps are so much better STILL have a backup pump onder the seat or in the shop

Is this for everyone, I would say NO. Will it effect resale? It MIGHT, depends on who your selling to, might make the truck MORE valuable to someone who knows what they are looking at. And to me it matters not cause I do not plan on selling anyway. I am just building the truck I wanted to buy 7 years ago.

After doing this and now KNOWING what is envolved, it for sure will not be the last time and the next one will most likely be on a CR block

 

[KLockliear]

I guess that really depends on what one considers "a lot" I would rather do this swap than than R/R/R the transmission/transcase.

And I do not think it has all been said before, I have searched, not just here but every diesel forum and it has been talked about yes but not much detail.

I found the info I was looking for in the F/S manual and Cummins Quickserve.

The one thing I have NEVER found anywhere is anyone that has actually done the swap wishing they had their vp44 back. One can put a "box" on their vp and get more power but you can not make it more reliable. Remember even the guys who say the "NEW" vps are so much better STILL have a backup pump onder the seat or in the shop

Is this for everyone, I would say NO. Will it effect resale? It MIGHT, depends on who your selling to, might make the truck MORE valuable to someone who knows what they are looking at. And to me it matters not cause I do not plan on selling anyway. I am just building the truck I wanted to buy 7 years ago.

After doing this and now KNOWING what is envolved, it for sure will not be the last time and the next one will most likely be on a CR block

Well, everything is subjective. That too goes to the point of what is a "finished package". I have seen conversions that ran, but that I wouldn't even point in the direction of and say "converted". Conversion means complete with working gauges and looks factory.



Saying that, I don't know of anyone who would say they'd rather have a VP44. Sure, the P-pump has reliability and performance on it's side and once done, it would be a nightmare to return to a VP. BUT, it's certainly easier to install a complete 12v into a 24v truck than to modify the 24v to accept a P-pump. Call Lenny at DDP... his personal truck is a 2002 with a 12v in it. Everything works too. Trying to adapt it all to a CR block is even more challenging... been there, done that too... even more work (custom front covers, oil pans, etc - at least the 12v/24v front stuff was compatible).



But, in the end, you have to find out for yourself. The thread starter asked a question, and the answer has been posted here many times before. I've seen it and I've posted it. Don't do it unless you're prepared for a lot of work to make it right. Putting the 12v in is way easier.

 

[DLane]

Pics

We agree that a proper conversion needs to be complete, look like it was made that way.

I could never bring myself to pull a perfectly good engine when the only problem is the pump, makes no sense to me.

Top is the Cam Position Sensor= makes the gauges work.

2+3 are the hardest part of the conversion and that bracket took about 6 brain cells 3 "beverages" and a hour of my time.

Voltage is set the same as you would if the APPS was still mounted on the vp44 throttle linkage and your done. NOT hard

I "made it run" (with gauges working and transmission shifting) in a little less than 15 hours, threw my wife the keys and left for 33 days of hunting and guiding.

Came home and tore it down to paint brackets and finish the conversion.

Other than APPS bracket, and fuel pressure regulator, everthing can be bought from Cummins and Dodge. Turn the wrenches.

The 24v breathes better than a 12v. EGT is lower with same pump mods, For me this maybe the prefered combo. Fuel + Air = HP

Of course I have not worked in the automotive field in 18 years, things may have changed.