Wandering….

[KPotter44]

I took the truck to the shop today and had them set it to Thuren specs and the truck is still all over the road. Not quite sure what to do now. I will send the new print out to them tomorrow and get their feedback. Maybe take it to one of their authorized installation shops that might have more experience with these trucks. Closest one is about a 2 hour ride, but the three local shops it has been to are all stumped.

 

[Ozymandias]

Print-out?

 

[Topzide]

I carry a copy of it in the truck along with other details that may be needed if something were to happen. Extra copies of the Thuren Specs so that i can leave a copy with them so that the next Ram owner may be given the choice. Once the shop has a chance to read the info around here, they've put a copy on computer to not loose. A little bit of discussion of why you would like these specs helps also.

 

[Ozymandias]

What tire pressure do you use?

 

[KPotter44]

Here is the printout from yesterday. As far as tire pressure, right now it's 60 in the front and 70 in the rear. We just got back from a trip pulling the 26' TT and a bed full of camping equipment.

 

[Ozymandias]

Caster looks odd, there should be about 1° difference left to right.
Please crawl under your truck and check the adjusters on the control arms how they are set.
They should be in a very similar position on both sides.
You'll see what I mean when you see it..
Make pictures and uploads if you are unsure about the findings.

 

[AEdelheit]

Interesting that the Before toe doesn't match the the last sheet , If you are near Middletown take a little drive to Patton fab in Sonoma and get it fixed right the first time with no hassle, he is a great guy or Bill and Jays tire in Petaluma also knows their stuff. Something is off and it seems that shop is not very competent.

 

[KPotter44]

Caster settings....
Thanks AEdelheit, I will look into them. Middletown is about 40 minutes so Sonoma would probably be a couple of hours. And I agree, something is not right.

 

[AEdelheit]

Have you had someone turn the wheel back and fourth while you looked at the front end? I feel like something is loose or worn, if someone turns the wheel back and fourth just a 1/8 rotation each way it puts a good load on all the joints and can usually spot what's worn.

 

[Ozymandias]

Setting of the adjuster looks about right.
I'm at the end here.
Follow the advice of AEdelheit.

 

[petersonj]

I'm at the end here.

I quit responding as this thread progressed, mainly because I was afraid that the Thuren alignment specs direction wasn't going to fix the problem, even though many times it does.

Solid axle suspension and steering components (especially T-type steering) are pretty basic. I think there is something simple that is wrong with this truck and it has been overlooked.

@KPotter44 , we need more concise information from you, along with a timeline of occurrence. In your first post you mentioned replacing upper and lower ball joints on the left side at 180,000 miles. Usually, ball joint replacements are done on both sides at the same time because they have equal time over lots of miles. Why did you just replace the driver side ball joints? In subsequent posts you mentioned the steering problem seemed to happening when you got new tires. In another following post you mentioned that those tires had been on the truck for about three years. So, has the steering problem been occurring for three years?

In Post#12 you mentioned disconnecting the drag link and freely rotating the passenger side wheel assembly left to right. Why didn't you do the same test for the left side, even though ball joints were new? It doesn't really matter whether the ball joints are old or new; it matters to know whether or not they are binding.

Alignment shops, like any repair shop, are always concerned about how long it takes to diagnose a problem because time is money. It sounds like you are getting canned procedures and responses to your request to solve this problem. I would try finding a shop where the guy says, "Well, let's take your truck for a test drive, so I can understand what you are talking about." Did any one of those shops test drive your truck before and after a repair, or alignment? You shouldn't be finding out that the problem wasn't fixed when you are driving home.

Which leads me to one of the objectives of this forum. Most of the people that use this forum are people who are working on their trucks and learning more about their trucks from hands-on repairs and maintenance. I think your quickest and least expensive way to solve your poor steering performance is to personally get involved in the diagnosis in a hands-on manner. I believe you mentioned that you have been a mechanic for years, but didn't know too much about alignment. The TDR is a great resource for that and I am sure there will be people willing to explain how to check each steering and suspension component under a load to rule them out one at a time.

Maybe you aren't able to do the work yourself and if so, there is no need to explain.

- John

 

[KPotter44]

You are 100% correct John. It is a little confusing. So here goes. Got new tires at B&G in Clearlake in May. Same tires I had on it for 3 years. Noticed a small amount of play in the steering and took it to shop # 1. He had replaced the steering box with a rebuilt Napa unit in ‘19. He said go on your trip and we’ll put a new rebuilt box in it when you get back. It was a lifetime guarantee deal so I had to pay for labor. No change.Tried to make an appointment at the shop where I got the tires for an alignment, but their machine was out of service. Called back a week later and made an appointment, dropped the truck off, and he called me a couple of hours later and said it was too complicated for his tech. Made an appointment at B&G in Middletown for an alignment. They showed me the worn ball joints on the drivers side and said the passenger side was tight so they had to order parts and I took it back a couple of days later. They replaced the ball joints and did the alignment. No change. Took it to Tire Pro in Clearlake to have them look at it. After he drives it he puts in on the rack and starts removing things. After market frame stiffener comes off and he says it’s a little better. It wasn’t. Factory steering stabilizer comes off. He says it’s a little better. It wasn’t. Then he says there is too much play in the steering box. Gave me an estimate for a new box at $1200. What? Brand new Borgesen box on Genos for less than $500 so I’m out of there. Back to shop #1 and he upgrades to a NEW Napa steering box. No change. Back to B&G in Middletown. I ask them to double check all the alignment spaces and go over everything 1 more time. They don’t find anything and suggest new tires. Ordered the tires and replaced with a less aggressive tread design. No change. Made an appointment at Big O in Clearlake. He adjusts the caster and says it should be better. It wasn’t. He didn’t even drive it. Then I got the Thuren specs and went back to Big O and asked if he could set it to those specs. He got all defensive thinking I was calling him out so he’s not touching the truck. Back to B&G in Middletown to set the Thuren specs. No change. You are correct in that I did not disconnect the drivers side wheel assembly to see if it turned freely and that’s on me. I assumed that when they replaced the ball joints they would have checked that. I’m going out this morning and having my wife run the truck and turn the steering 1/8 turn back and forth and I will have a flashlight and check all the joints. Hopefully I’ll get lucky and see something that everyone else missed.

 

[KPotter44]

Oh yeah, and now the drivers side axle seal is leaking. No one in my County does this job. Have an appointment at The Rear End Shop in Santa Rosa to get those replaced. No doubt when they did the ball joints they bumped the seal and we’ll deal with them later. $1200 - $1500 for that job.

 

[petersonj]

Thank you for the detailed timeline. It definitely helps understanding the progression of events.

You are on the right track for the next step. Make sure the transmission is in neutral / park and the park brake is set. Put a block one the front and rear side of one tire.

Have the engine idling for the test. This will put much more force on each component. Pause the steering wheel in each direction for about one second. Do each direction four or five times. Make a point to only study one component at a time, or else you may miss something.

I don't think you have checked for resistance in the steering shaft that passes through the column. This can be done by disconnecting the steering shaft in the engine compartment by the firewall. Before disconnecting, be sure to strap the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. After disconnecting the steering, you can undo the strap and rotate the steering to check for any resistance. Turning the steering 180° in each direction will fine for the test. There should be virtually no resistance.

Recenter in the straight ahead position and re-install the strap. IMPORTANT! Keep track of the turns and re-install the steering shaft with the steering wheel in the exact position as it was when removed. There is a clock spring that is connected to the steering shaft inside the cab that allows flexible wiring to reach the airbag and any switches on the steering wheel.

Again, I appreciate the information you provided.

- John

 

[endoscott]

There is a Mark Twain tale called "My Watch" that is as insightful as today as it was then. There is little humor in protracted truck repairs, but this little tale applies to everything (including our own medical/dental diagnoses and procedures).

http://www.terrysutcliffe.com/?p=990

 

[KPotter44]

Update…So went under the truck as my wife was turning the steering wheel back and forth. Put my hands on everything as she was doing that and felt something in one of the joints. After she stopped I got a pry bar and started prying on a few places. Nor sure of the terminology, but the part that connects the pitman arm to the tie rod just didn’t feel right when you grabbed it and twisted it. Felt like there was a ridge or rough spot on the ball. That part has three pieces to it and I went on the Moog website and identified the individual parts and just for the heck of it, punched in the numbers on Amazon. Yep, they had them in stock for substantially less than the Moog website. Got the parts and put the rod together and installed it. Wow! What a difference. Truck steers much easier and the wandering is gone. Truck has been on 3 alignment racks and they couldn’t catch this? Doesn’t give one much confidence in the younger mechanics these days. Anyway, thanks for all your input and I just thought I’d give an update.

 

[petersonj]

@KPotter , you have presented a text book case of why many people have elected to learn how to maintain and repair their own trucks. If 80% of repair shops performed quality work and showed a genuine interest in their customers, this site probably wouldn't exist to the extent it does.

The T-steering photo below should represent your truck. Which parts did you replace?

Glad to hear that your ordeal is over.

- John

 

[KPotter44]

Hey John. Yes, the “T” steering is what I have and I replaced the top bar. Both ends and the adjusting sleeve. I will replace the bottom bar as well and then have an alignment. Again, thanks for your input.

 

[AEdelheit]

Glad you got it figured out but in the future please do not use Moog parts on the front end, I have seen 5 of their Tie Rods break in half. They do not make quality parts for these trucks.

 

[Ozymandias]

Glad you got it figured out but in the future please do not use Moog parts on the front end, I have seen 5 of their Tie Rods break in half. They do not make quality parts for these trucks.

Just went with APEX steering linkage after the Mopar (that served me well) developed a little play in the ball joints after about 90k.